Poll Galaxy's Child: in a tng marathon why I skipped this episode?

[think]

"I'm Lieutenant Commander Geordi La Forge, chief engineer."
"La Forge… so you're the one who's fouled up my engine designs."

- Geordi La Forge and Dr. Leah Brahms

This is why I skipped this episode --: essential I didn't want to see Geordi La Forge get crushed again by his dream date coming to the enterprise. I liked when they did the hologram interaction the other day with her.. it was great.. --but to see this turn of events would have been quite annoying again.. --- I did not like the interplay the first time and would not watch it again.. I don't just skip thru the series but this is reason enough for the skip through.

Rather I am in the night terrors episode..more of a settling type episode..--..eyes in the dark, one moon circling --- hehe..so now the lizard Geordi.. - one is starting

I know galaxy's child .. has that baby beast as another plot arc in the story but --- yeah it starts with this interaction..---So am I the baby beast fearful to be disappointed or what.?

so I was unsure if this needed as topic but thinking that it was a episode that I "should of watched" in my marathon of tng-- as prep for to watch the series picard..i would need reasons to do that nor not to do that.. == to go back and watch it. =-= I have about a week of continuous watching I hope I make it but IDK..

I guess .. we will see from the trekbbs reactions here. I should continue comments about my marathon here it would be the -- other topic of this thread.. I guess I have both windows open in two monitors.. --- I don't own a TV and watch on the computer desktop--

Thanks for the replies if any--- OH I can make a poll (I like polls)

 

[Lance]

The reason I can't watch it anymore is quite simple: Geordi always had weird creeper vibes in this one, but it's even worse in the 21st century. Most uncomfortable of all is the scene where Leah finds the hologram version of herself and angrily (justifiably) confronts Geordi about it... and rather than being absolutely apologetic about it, and all the other weird creeper stuff he's been doing since she came aboard that has made her feel uncomfortable, instead he gaslights her. And the episode never once suggests he's in the wrong. It's very uncomfortable viewing, and as much as I don't dislike the other plot about the giant alien baby, I just can't watch it on run throughs of the show anymore.

The only episode that is more uncomfortable to rewatch is "Code Of Honor".

 

[Tosk]

instead he gaslights her.

Really? What was it he said to her in that scene that was untrue?

And the episode never once suggests he's in the wrong.

It/Geordi does at the end of the episode. "I should have told you straight out."

 

[Nakita Akita]

The reason I can't watch it anymore is quite simple: Geordi always had weird creeper vibes in this one, but it's even worse in the 21st century. Most uncomfortable of all is the scene where Leah finds the hologram version of herself and angrily (justifiably) confronts Geordi about it... and rather than being absolutely apologetic about it, and all the other weird creeper stuff he's been doing since she came aboard that has made her feel uncomfortable, instead he gaslights her. And the episode never once suggests he's in the wrong. It's very uncomfortable viewing, and as much as I don't dislike the other plot about the giant alien baby, I just can't watch it on run throughs of the show anymore.

The only episode that is more uncomfortable to rewatch is "Code Of Honor".

I'm not even sure what "gas lights" means.
I could call my 90 year old dad and ask him, it sounds like a very old term.
Maybe you should watch the show again.
Geordie, as I can recall blows up at her after she goes off on him. But it seemed. That in the end he and she worked it out.

It's like an adult solution to an odd situation.
She doesn't have to be a weak, simpering female that if a man has a testosterone cell in his body she has to get permenantly offended and ruin his life and career about it.
In an adult fashion, they worked it out.
As it would be nice if that could be done.
Remember it's supposed to be the future.

 

[Danja]

I'm not even sure what "gas lights" means.

It's a form of manipulation. It's either calling someone crazy or denying something happened. ("You're crazy. It never happened. Why are you making stuff up?" )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

 

[think]

OMG the trill episode.. what acting for these actors --- odan.. is first Beverly's lover then she gets close to commander Riker then --- a female host OMG it was done well I did not see this first thru during that time in my life I was In a halfway house or three quarters house some place in a nearby town.. not really about watching tv any at all. I had missed this whole section of episodes and since I only saw few reruns these were not in the reruns I saw.. just like this is the intro to the trills it was awesome I liked this body changes same person just really cool...big WOW==

S4 E23

 

[suarezguy]

The reason I can't watch it anymore is quite simple: Geordi always had weird creeper vibes in this one, but it's even worse in the 21st century. Most uncomfortable of all is the scene where Leah finds the hologram version of herself and angrily (justifiably) confronts Geordi about it... and rather than being absolutely apologetic about it, and all the other weird creeper stuff he's been doing since she came aboard that has made her feel uncomfortable, instead he gaslights her.

While he was quite dishonest with her both before and in that scene (both in knowing more about her and having wanted more than friendship) his behavior wasn't nearly as bad as she thought it was, leapt to conclude it was. Neither having looked up her "online" biography (though lying about it isn't good) or having created a hologram of her are outrageous, especially as we know he created it to solve a tech/engineering problem and hadn't used it in a long time since (and the latter should be pretty knowable, you would think the computer would indicate when it was last accessed).

 

[Timo]

From the 21st century perspective, it's not really plausible to think that stalking would be frowned upon any longer. (Be that the 24th century or the 21st.)

I mean, everybody stalks today; internet has made it mandatory rather than merely optional. In a few years, you might go to jail for not properly stalking your date beforehand.

What to make of the hologram, then? Mandatory stalking is the result of the medium, a byproduct of technology. Creating likenesses would appear to be an absolutely inevitable byproduct of the technology utilized by our TNG heroes. "Nice to meet you, and see, I painted this fine oil of you" may be super-creepy today because you really need to devote yourself above and beyond the realm of the reasonable to do an oil. "I asked the computer to make a hologram of you" has none of that.

Of course, the episode wishes to deal with the social mores of today through these fictional technologies of tomorrow. Only, they aren't so "fictional" or "tomorrow" any longer. And we're dealing with the real implications already, with changing social mores and desperate counterreactions.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Lance]

It's a form of manipulation. It's either calling someone crazy or denying something happened. ("You're crazy. It never happened. Why are you making stuff up?" )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

The specific moment that starts to feel a bit like gaslighting, and not simply him offering up a defence, is this:


LAFORGE: All right, look. Ever since you came on board, you've been badgering me and I've taken it. I've shown you courtesy, and respect, and a hell of a lot of patience. Oh, no, no, no, wait a minute. I've tried to understand you. I've tried to get along with you. And in return, you've accused, tried and convicted me without bothering to hear my side of it. So, I'm guilty, okay? But not of what you think. Of something much worse. I'm guilty of reaching out to you, of hoping we could connect. I'm guilty of a terrible crime, Doctor. I offered you friendship.


I don't doubt Geordi didn't intend to do it, and I don't doubt either that his intentions are not dangerous, but what he does here isn't presented sympathetically, it comes across as manipulative as heck in a scene where Brahms has said to him how uncomfortable all of this feels, from the romantic dinner date all the way through the holodeck simulation, and he spins it around to him just trying to be friendly and her being frosty and unlikeable. One does feel like the writers intended us to be siding with Geordi here, as the regular character, but in the cold light of 2020, the whole scene looks like a woman upset about a stalker, and the stalker gas-lighting her and basically saying it's all her fault, not his. That's why the episode is intensely uncomfortable to me now. At least as uncomfortable as the universally derided 'Code of Honor' back in Season 1.

I'm not against people enjoying the episode, really I'm not I'm just trying to explain why I, personally, can't watch it anymore.

Edit: I do actually appreciate one thing about the episode, which is that it subverts the expectations of Leah Brahms from 'Booby Trap' pretty successfully, pulling a good old bait and switch on both Geordi and the tv audience. It also tells us a lot about the holodeck and the dangers of technology: given a chance to pull on all the computer's records about Leah and amalgamate them into the program, the computer creates a more fully fleshed NPC, but she's still an NPC designed to be interactive and user-friendly to Geordi LaForge. The real person, however, is a *real* person, an individual, and absolutely not designed to just be in Geordi's orbit. That's a part of Galaxy's Child I quite like.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I don't think he's manipulating her, he's just playing down the importance of it and that he had an emotional connection with the hologram.

 

[Lance]

I don't think he's manipulating her, he's just playing down the importance of it and that he had an emotional connection with the hologram.

I don't think he's being manipulative on purpose, but he is manipulating the situation. It's very important to her, and by downplaying it, and the extent to which he had grown attached to the hologram, he's definitely gaslighting in my opinion. He's portraying events differently to how they really were, and suggesting she must have misunderstood them, when it's actually pretty darn clear he expected romance from the very moment he heard she was coming and was making some pretty strong overtures. He then downplays the hologram, *and* that he'd been jonesing to woo her the whole time ("I offered you friendship" is a very clear gaslight move).

Again, someone can do these things and be unaware they're doing it, or not intending to. But if anything, that makes the behaviour even worse.... because at the end of the day, no self-awareness of what you're doing isn't a defence of it. It suggests a certain amount of sociopathy.

Again, we know Geordi doesn't mean any harm. We've been watching him for 4 seasons and we understand him as a character. But Leah doesn't, and yes, they eventually learn a way to 'get along', but that doesn't dilute her feelings, nor that Geordi continually tramples on them, knowingly or otherwise. It's very, very uncomfortable to watch play out, that's all I'm saying. It's confronting in a way that maybe it wasn't back in 1992. Largely because of the feeling that the episode doesn't really try to equally present both sides, it just sides with Geordi throughout, and suggests Leah has just got a stick up her ass and needs to chill out. I don't find that easy to watch. It's probably in a small handful of episodes I'd skip for these reasons.

 

[Lance]

I'm finding the discussion on this fascinating, by the way. Shows that even 25+ year old television can still make us think.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I agree Geordi was being a jerk, I guess I see him downplaying the hologram more as trying to explain and defend himself from summary judgment than gaslighting. And that “Offered you friendship” line I see more as bad writing, the writer misunderstanding the viewer and thinking they will automatically take Geordi’s side.

He was more wrong than she was, but she did start with judgment and hostility before hearing out his side, belittling him about his engine modifications.

 

[Nakita Akita]

To me, and the way I have always seen the episode, is that they are both total nerd/dorks. Neither knows how to interact all that well with anyone, least of all the opposite sex, and freakishly so, if they find themselves in the slightest way attracted to them.
Geordie, we all know is best when interacting with Data. He does okay with the main crew, because he's not attracted to any of them. (For the most part)
There are numerous instances where he acts badly with various other individuals.
Brahms I always figured was pretty much a Geordie in female form. She is snotty to him about his engine modifications, because it's the best she is able to do with human interactions. Maybe she found him attractive, we're never sure one way or the other about that part. If she was, it would only make her have that much more of a problem dealing with him.

So Geordi comes off creepy and Brahms comes off bitchy. It's the curse of the nerds.

 

[Tom]

21st century view: Enterprise HR would have fired him, and he would be listed a predator by the 'Me Too' movement.

 

[Tosk]

he's definitely gaslighting in my opinion.

Denying something is not gaslighting. Geordi never tries to convince Leah that she is crazy, only that she is mistaken about the situation and there is an explanation. Geordi denies her accusation. Leah was outraged, and she had every right to be. But Geordi has just as much right to set the record straight.

Leah assumes that the program was "all about a fantasy plaything" and implied that Geordi had sex with holoBrahms. Geordi denies it and he is telling the truth.

Whether or not Geordi acted appropriately is up to the individual, but whether or not he gaslighted her isn't. By definition he didn't. You can't gaslight someone by telling the truth.

The only time Geordi even comes close to sugarcoating it is when he says, "I offered you friendship." This is still true, but it ignores the related fact that he clearly did have some romantic hopes (evidenced by the dinner he arranged). But he is still realistic about the situation, telling Guinan, "I'm not necessarily expecting anything romantic here. It's just I know whatever, Leah Brahms and I are going to be good friends."

 

[Makarov]

I like to imagine a continuation of this story: Leah becomes interested in the booby trap incident so she re-runs the program and put herself in her own hologram's scenario. It gets hot and heavy with Geordie and then her husband walks into the holodeck

 

[Winterwind]

The reason I can't watch it anymore is quite simple: Geordi always had weird creeper vibes in this one, but it's even worse in the 21st century. Most uncomfortable of all is the scene where Leah finds the hologram version of herself and angrily (justifiably) confronts Geordi about it... and rather than being absolutely apologetic about it, and all the other weird creeper stuff he's been doing since she came aboard that has made her feel uncomfortable, instead he gaslights her. And the episode never once suggests he's in the wrong. It's very uncomfortable viewing, and as much as I don't dislike the other plot about the giant alien baby, I just can't watch it on run throughs of the show anymore.

The only episode that is more uncomfortable to rewatch is "Code Of Honor".

Even when the episode first aired I thought Geordi was creepy in this one. I've watched it once since and still thought he was creepy.

As for Code of Honour, I watched that a couple of months ago, slogging my way through a TNG rewatch and... well, I've never understood why people see it as racist. To this day I just see it as simply as that was simply the skin colour on, and culture of, that planet. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[DonIago]

To me Geordi's greatest crime in the episode, which undermines everything that follows, boils down to the fact that from the get-go he's not honest with Leah. He's not honest about the fact that he has interest in her, he's not honest about the fact that he looked up her profile, and he's not honest about the fact that he used her holographic likeness to research a problem.

It would have taken him all of two minutes to front-load this information into his meeting with her, and he chose not to.

He may not actively mean her any harm, but he establishes that he's willing to lie via omission to her.

I can't let him off the hook for this, because if I were in Leah's place and I found out that someone not only had used my holographic likeness, but hadn't even had the decency to tell me at some point before I randomly stumbled into it, I'd be livid.

LAFORGE: All right, look. Ever since you came on board, you've been badgering me and I've taken it. I've shown you courtesy, and respect, and a hell of a lot of patience. Oh, no, no, no, wait a minute. I've tried to understand you. I've tried to get along with you. And in return, you've accused, tried and convicted me without bothering to hear my side of it. So, I'm guilty, okay? But not of what you think. Of something much worse. I'm guilty of reaching out to you, of hoping we could connect. I'm guilty of a terrible crime, Doctor. I offered you friendship.

Where's the part where he apologizes for the fact that he was manipulative and implicitly dishonest?

 

[Makarov]

Where's the part where he apologizes for the fact that he was manipulative and implicitly dishonest?

LEAH: You know, I really owe you an apology.
LAFORGE: No, you don't. I should have told you straight out.