Federation-Paradan ties in the context of the Dominion cold war

[Reymet_2]

Re-watching Whispers, I've noticed one thing that haven't considered before - this episode is not only about O'Brien suffering but also about the Federation trying to exert its political influence on the Gamma Quadrant.

Let's just analyze the situation. There's a civil war in the Parada system which has been lasting for twelve years. Peace talks are about to start aboard the DS9. Why did the Paradans choose the DS9 as a platform for negotiations? The most feasible answer must be that all other platforms (which are located in the GQ) don't satisfy either the government or the rebels. Why can all GQ platforms not satisfy one of the sides? The most probable answer is the Dominion. Even if peace talks are held not in the Dominion itself, any other GQ states will anyway take the Dominion's opinion on the conflict into account since the Dominion dominates GQ. So the Dominion is very likely a stakeholder in the Paradan civil war. Which the Federation is going to settle without Dominion. Moreover, Federation violates the agreement with Paradan government not to receive any transmissions from the rebels and foils government's plan to assassinate rebel leadership during the negotiations. Which can be considered to be support of the rebels. To sum up, Federation interferes in a civil war where the Dominion is a stakeholder and supports one of the factions.

Then, roughly three years later, in Homefront, we can see a Paradan diplomat at the Antwerp conference. Since we can suppose that after Whispers Federation's relationships with then Paradan government severely soured, that diplomat is most likely from the rebel faction. There can be two variants, how such a thing can happen.
If the rebels have overthrown the government (and thus have become a new government), the situation basically mirrors By Inferno's Light - a political group overthrows the government and seeks ties with a superpower from the other side of the wormhole.
If the rebels haven't overthrown the government (i. e. the civil war still going on), the situation is even more inappropriate for the Dominion since it basically means that the Federation overtly expresses its support for a faction in a civil war within Dominion's sphere of influence.

Anyway, the statement "Federation was just exploring the GQ, and Founders were paranoid assholes who started a war over nothing" starts to crumble if we look at Whispers from this standpoint.

 

[Lynx]

The Federation always try to expand by trade, comntacts and future membership for worlds which are suitable for Federation membership.

OK, that way of expanding can of course be debated. Still a better way for expansion than the Dominion has, I mean sending in JemHad'ar when they want the resources on a planet or contaminating a planet with a deadly disease when that planet try to stand up against the Dominion.

The Federation is definitely more honorable than the Dominion when it comes to influence and/or possible expansion.

 

[at Quark's]

The Federation is definitely more honorable than the Dominion when it comes to influence and/or possible expansion.

I don't know. Apparently there are some that prefer even straight out Borg assimilation over the Federation 'soft' power influence. At least, if Eddington means his words

 

[Lynx]

I don't know. Apparently there are some that prefer straight out Borg assimilation than the Federation 'soft' power influence. At least, if Eddington means his words

There are always opinions on everything.

And Eddington had his reasons to dislike the Federation. How they actuall sold out those colonized worlds in the DMZ wasn't particularily nice. A bad compromise which didn't bring "peace in our time" as the federation leaders may have thought.

But I wonder what Eddington had said if The Dominion had been the power which would take over the worlds in the DMZ. Even the Cardassians did seem more benevolent compared to the Dominion.

 

[Reymet_2]

The Federation always try to expand by trade, comntacts and future membership for worlds which are suitable for Federation membership.

Wasn't Dominion doing the same?

or contaminating a planet with a deadly disease when that planet try to stand up against the Dominion.

Do you mean the morphogenic virus? I agree, it was horrible.

 

[kkt]

I don't see why some people take Eddington's words about the Federation at face value. We know from all Star Trek that the Federation has a stringent application process for new members, and new members certainly aren't going to be admitted if they don't want to join. Sure, the Federation will have a trade relationship with non-Federation members. A trade relationship benefits both sides - and could be broken off by either side if they feel it is no longer beneficial.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Wasn't Dominion doing the same?

Well, in a sense.

But from what we can tell, the Federation's response to a "no" is something along the lines of: "Okay, let us know if you change your mind."

Versus:

ORNITHAR: All I know is that the Vorta say to do something and you do it.
SISKO: Why?
ORNITHAR: Because if you do not they will send in the Jem'Hadar, and then you die.
SISKO: Will you put us in contact with the Vorta?
ORNITHAR: Commander, we do only as we are told, nothing more. And so far, we have not been told to help you in any way.
SISKO: You haven't been told not to, either.
ORNITHAR: No, but I prefer to err on the side of caution.

YMMV, I guess.

 

[Lynx]

Wasn't Dominion doing the same?

Do you mean the morphogenic virus? I agree, it was horrible.

Shamrock Holmes post quoted below says the most about the difference.

Well, in a sense.

But from what we can tell, the Federation's response to a "no" is something along the lines of: "Okay, let us know if you change your mind."

Versus:

ORNITHAR: All I know is that the Vorta say to do something and you do it.
SISKO: Why?
ORNITHAR: Because if you do not they will send in the Jem'Hadar, and then you die.
SISKO: Will you put us in contact with the Vorta?
ORNITHAR: Commander, we do only as we are told, nothing more. And so far, we have not been told to help you in any way.
SISKO: You haven't been told not to, either.
ORNITHAR: No, but I prefer to err on the side of caution.

YMMV, I guess.

 

[Reymet_2]

Versus:

ORNITHAR: All I know is that the Vorta say to do something and you do it.
SISKO: Why?
ORNITHAR: Because if you do not they will send in the Jem'Hadar, and then you die.
SISKO: Will you put us in contact with the Vorta?
ORNITHAR: Commander, we do only as we are told, nothing more. And so far, we have not been told to help you in any way.
SISKO: You haven't been told not to, either.
ORNITHAR: No, but I prefer to err on the side of caution.

The Karemma were already a part of the Dominion. For its members, the Dominion requires compliance with the Founders' orders, I know. But have we seen the Dominion forcing anyone to join using the Jem'Hadar?

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

The Karemma were already a part of the Dominion. For its members, the Dominion requires compliance with the Founders' orders, I know. But have we seen the Dominion forcing anyone to join using the Jem'Hadar?

Well, there's the example of the Teplans (who lives 'just outside Dominion space), a people who were infected with an engineered pathogen known as "The Blight" for 'resisting the Dominion' which endures after two hundred years.

Now, they could have done worse than just refuse to join, but given that the Dominion are otherwise shown to be quick to attack any potential military threat IMO that's not certain. YMMV.

 

[Reymet_2]

Now, they could have done worse than just refuse to join, but given that the Dominion are otherwise shown to be quick to attack any potential military threat IMO that's not certain. YMMV.

It's quite possible that the Dominion firstly defeated Teplans in a war, and then contaminated them with the Blight.

If the Dominion had really wanted the Teplans to join (to exploit their resources or establish military bases in their space), it would have taken what it wanted after wiping Teplans out or at least devastating their homeworld. Since it limited itself to devastation, the conflict was perhaps not about Teplans refusing to join.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

It's quite possible that the Dominion firstly defeated Teplans in a war, and then contaminated them with the Blight.

I can't the Dominion allowing a threat that started the conflict to continue to exist centuries later given how militant they are otherwise, but I could seem them doing so for an otherwise innocent party whose only "crime" was to reject the Dominion's... dominion.

 

[Reymet_2]

I can't the Dominion allowing a threat that started the conflict to continue to exist centuries later given how militant they are otherwise

Well, it can hardly be called existence. It's more of a warning to other GQ states.

The Blight not only kills a huge number of people at a young age but also greatly throws the whole civilization backwards in terms of technology (with EM fields intensifying the course of illness, the most advanced technology available is a steam engine, early 19th century for Earth. For a spacefaring species whom the Teplans were before, it's a huge degradation). In such a state they are no longer a threat.

but I could seem them doing so for an otherwise innocent party whose only "crime" was to reject the Dominion's... dominion.

The issue here is that we don't know what exactly does the Dominion want from solids. "What you control can't hurt you" - we've heard it but what exactly is the "control"? The Karemma are members of the Dominion (since Starship Down has shown them as Dominion's arms suppliers, they could have joined for trade benefits) and they have to obey the Vorta (otherwise the Jem'Hadar would arrive and teach them a lesson). But of all GQ species shown, only the Karemma are explicitly shown as Dominion members. Dosi, Hunters, Rakhari, Wadi, Argrathi, Paradans and presumably many others are not and Dominion hasn't shown any intentions to conquer them (otherwise, they would have been conquered long before the series started). Maybe, they are just too small to be alone considered a threat by the Founders. And thus "Dominion's dominion" for them means abidance of some unofficial rules like "don't align with any other space superpower and don't make alliances without Dominion's consent/participation" (because these things can turn them into a real threat). The Teplans maybe had not attacked the Dominion first but they could have violated these rules.

The Dominion is not shown to annex worlds just for the sake of annexation. If they wanted Teplans to join, they needed something from them. If they needed something from them, they would have taken it after the victory but they have not.