Engine designations in SoSF books etc

[BazBaziah]

This is a question for aridas sofia in relation to the numbers used in engine designations, such as LN-64 etc.
I always considered the numbers to be the year the engine was put into production or first used but notice that two engines noted in the Akyazi book are LN-91 and LN-94 but the noted publication date (in the trekverse) of the book is 2290?
Have I been wrong all along or is this an oversight from proofreading?

Is there a standard to the remainder of the designations like

Mod 1
PB-## (S) etc.

One final question as a post script if you dont mind, will you be reposting any images from here again in a viewable format after the demise of photo bucket or are they available elsewhere?

Cheers in advance,

Jim

 

[knightgrace]

The Horizon/Archon class used PB-18, warp drives...so no. It is merely a progressive numbering system. Technically speaking he should have started with PA, as the largest in diameter warp drive.

Keep in mind, however that the Constitution class started with PB-30s, followed years later, by an improved version, the PB-31; the the series version the PB-32. Followed by the PB-47.

As near as I can tell, the PB-30 lacked fuel supply, so nine years out, standard maximum. The PB-31, rearranged the internal volume permitting a boost to twelve years...

So what happened?

Somebody got smart. Such that the space warp generator was moved backwards.

LN series, well LN designates something different. LN is for linear

 

[Unicron]

I could look up some details for the FASA system, though of course that's it's own thing. I do recall that FASA tended to use letter designations for each category of systems for ship construction, so for example the Constitution class vessels mainly used the FWF nacelles (Federation Warp, model 6) while the Enterprise class refits used FWG nacelles (Federation Warp model 7).

I also recall that Jackill had a few designs like the Lobo and Kodiak that used an SY71 system described as an advanced nacelle model, but the individual class descriptions don't really explain much detail on how this model differs from those of the more conventional type. Perhaps it was intended as something of an interim between the LN-64 series and the transwarp prototype nacelles designed for the Excelsior project?

 

[knightgrace]

Another thing about FASA, was that they assumed that the internal arrangement didn't change between the FWF-1, and the FWG-1...

While this would greatly simplify things, it didn't explain why the TMP Enterprise was set up the way it was. Turns out that the Phase II Enterprise, was supposed to power its Phasers directly from the matter/antimatter reactor. Meaning that the new Phasers were more than a bit more powerful. Meaning that the new Enterprise was considerably more devastating than before, a real game changer...(pun intended). Unfortunately FASA, missed this aspect. Please look up the TMP Flight Manual for details.

This raises a great many questions, and yes, the Enterprise-D, used a similar system.

Meaning that the fire power of later ships is grossly under estimated. At least for games.

Since the realization that Artificial Intelligence systems to do a decent job of it Artificial Intelligence wise, requires an extraordinary great amount of power, this means that Duotronics most likely was a vastly great power savor Meaning that the computer system aboard the Enterprise was out performing the expected computer systems found onboard, let's say Klingon ships...

Which means that power allocation for the computers is significant...in battle.

Changes things, doesn't it?

As to shield systems in FASA 1st edition, shield systems were part of the hull.

But the idea of power surges came with TNG, but explains why the TOS Enterprise, could handle Nomad, and the Romulan Bird-of-Prey.

Getting caught with just navigational constant power output, is not a good idea.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Pretty sure FASA was just Federation Warp followed by letters and Federation Trans Warp for transwarp engines. Enterprise has FWG-1 and then the A had FTWG-1. The nacelles were built in Australia at Leeding Engines, Ltd.

IIRC, the Kelvinverse Enterprise had FWG-1 too, according to the long defunct "Experience the Enterprise" holographic webcam site.

 

[BazBaziah]

I could look up some details for the FASA system, though of course that's it's own thing.

I know the FASA system well and enjoyed both playing and designing ships back in the day. I even worked on some updated charts etc. for an online fan site.
It has it good points and it's bad but still remains my favourite of all the ST tabletop shop games I've played.

 

[blssdwlf]

Pretty sure FASA was just Federation Warp followed by letters and Federation Trans Warp for transwarp engines. Enterprise has FWG-1 and then the A had FTWG-1. The nacelles were built in Australia at Leeding Engines, Ltd.

IIRC, the Kelvinverse Enterprise had FWG-1 too, according to the long defunct "Experience the Enterprise" holographic webcam site.

Pretty close. FASA had put out their Starship Construction Manual and it lists the TOS Enterprise with FWF-1 and the TMP Enterprise with FWG-1 engines. The Excelsior had FTWA-1 engines.

 

[Unicron]

They used a similar system for the Klingon and Romulan fleets, and also tied in the engine and weapon categories with other gear like computer systems. To build a decent ship, at least in theory, you needed the right blend of components.

It is interesting that in many cases, FASA mentions significant time frames (5-20 years or so) for some systems or combinations to reach the ideal state of compatibility and readiness for fleet use. The Federation phaser and photon torpedo systems were preceded by lasers and magnetic accelerators respectively, both of which effectively became obsolete once the former technologies advanced enough. The torpedoes seem to have more issues balancing ideal range or power relative to phaser systems.

 

[knightgrace]

Here's another thought, looking at the Phase II Enterprise, going by the intent that the ship's Phasers make use of warp reactor power, then assuming that the Federation FH-3, or something similar... its rating would be at 90 units of power or 900,000,000 joules.

Furthermore, using the Phase II Enterprise as a springboard, then the Excelsior class would travel at warp factor 9, to an emergency warp factor of warp 9.5.

The Ambassador class at; warp 9.5 to warp 9.75.

The Galaxy class; at warp 9.75 to warp factor 9.875. Notice that warp factor ten is unobtainable. Why is this?

Heat, waste heat in particular.

Force field technology can extend a bit, but at some point, will take too much power.

 

[aridas sofia]

This is a question for aridas sofia in relation to the numbers used in engine designations, such as LN-64 etc.
I always considered the numbers to be the year the engine was put into production or first used but notice that two engines noted in the Akyazi book are LN-91 and LN-94 but the noted publication date (in the trekverse) of the book is 2290?
Have I been wrong all along or is this an oversight from proofreading?

Is there a standard to the remainder of the designations like

Mod 1
PB-## (S) etc.

It’s pretty simple. The numbering of those nacelles was indeed meant to reflect the Earth year they were developed… and not reflect it. Think of how the US Army changed the numbering system for its long guns. You have M1903 and M1914 and then suddenly M1. They changed from basing the number on year of manufacture to order of development. That example was in my mind.

The thinking back in those long ago days was to keep it all a little loose and infer that more was going on than we were being explicit in explaining. So, infer that at one point the nacelles are numbered based on date of development - Earth date or some other planet’s date. A basically haphazard system that leads to some change that tries to make it all make sense. Which then causes a reaction against the change, and so on. We did that kind of thing here and there and just dropped the references in but never explained what was going on, to give the impression a lot more was going on.

As time has passed and the ability to keep complex stuff organized and straight has improved with computers, and exchanges such as this one between the people making the books and the people reading the books has proliferated, a lot of “filling between the lines” has gone on. But that doesn’t change the fact that at the beginning, it was much looser and inferential and not necessarily completely worked out. Hinting with the implication that if you were some officer or government official or manufacturer reading these publications, you were saavy enough to know why PB-30 clearly links with 2230 but PB-18 reflects a later refit of ships that were originally developed with pre-circumferential technology and were later refit with early circumferential nacelles. Etc etc and so on. Think the silhouettes on the starship recognition chart. Sometimes the less you show, the more interest you generate.

One more tidbit about PB-18: back then, the only authorative guide to the age of NCC-1701 was the statement in the supposedly authoritative TMoST that the Enterprise class of starships was fifty years old during TOS. By our reckoning, TOS was happening in 2268 - 300 years after TMoST was written (the 300 years being the reference from Miri). So, we had Enterprise being launched fifty years earlier, in 2218. And when it was launched, it was fit with the latest and greatest, first really tried and true, circumferential nacelles. PB-18. So, at the beginning, it set all the records. It was already a legendary ship by the time of April and Pike and Kirk. In our minds, that left almost limitless room for storytelling about the earlier adventures of NCC-1701. And peripherally, this technology got retrofit onto earlier ships, which is why the Horizons and Archons would have been shown with the same nacelles Enterprise was launched with.

 

[publiusr]

Pretty close. FASA had put out their Starship Construction Manual and it lists the TOS Enterprise with FWF-1 and the TMP Enterprise with FWG-1 engines. The Excelsior had FTWA-1 engines.

Chandley had the better impulse—refit Enterprise better warp.

Anyone in Stardate Magazine combine those two pre-Excelsior?

Picard’s old Constellation had two impulse decks…

 

[knightgrace]

FASA, to limit some things, said that there could only be one impulse unit per ship due to interference with the warp engines. The obvious solution is for the impulse drives is to be 180° out of phase with the warp drive. Same for three warp drives. Meaning that the Federation class, could work very well.

But a second impulse system could be there to generate extra power without going through the space/time driver coils. This is of course per Constellation class.

As to the Tritium class... just move the apex warp drive out of direct alignment. If it is out of alignment as with the Federation class, then it works.