Edith Keeler's or Miramanee's Last Scene

[Spock's Barber]

Both of these characters' deaths deeply affected Kirk. Edith's death scene shocked me, but the direction/editing transitioned quickly to Kirk's sorrow. I just watched Paradise Syndrome and I felt a lot of sympathy for Kirk when Miramanee passed away. The director focused on both Kirk and Miramanee for several minutes. Which of these last scenes do you think affected you more?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I never felt that COTEOF delivered the emotional payoff it was supposed to. Edith spent too much time being an administrative person, and a (future) divisive political force, as opposed to a loving woman. And the ending was too rushed.

By contrast, "The Paradise Syndrome" achieved tremendous sadness by developing more empathy for Miramanee and then spending some time with her at the end.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Kirk's grief at Edith's passing was more powerfully conveyed than with Miramanee. Kirk was losing his wife as well as his unborn child, but he also had the chance to say goodbye. Edith was ripped from him. He never got to tell her his feelings. To be honest, neither episode ever really got to me that much. Episodic television of the day meant we knew the girl was gonna die in both episodes. What drags down "The Paradise Syndrome" is Third Season Shatner - much as I love he man's work, he wrenched more than a few chuckles. The "I am Kirrroookkk!" as well as the LOUD whispering of "I'm so haaaaa-peeeee!!!!" By the time we got to Miramanee's death, I was pulled out of the episode a few too many times and even though Kirk got some closure, it was "TV timing." She stayed alive just long enough to get to the end of the goodbyes. As for "City," I really appreciated the sudden turn of events that lead to Edith's death. It was quick, not drawn out and Kirk had no time for goodbyes. She was just gone. For that and Shatner's acting, this episode is stronger. If the season ended here, it would have been killer. But I agree with Zap: Edith wasn't a strong enough character. Miramanee was actually really likeable. That made it sad.

So really, both were effective for different reasons, and neither was as effective as they could have been.

 

[Commishsleer]

COTEOF because it was focused on Kirk and we had the lead up and Kirk was responsible.
I'm going to be harsh here (its only a TV show by the way) but if Miramanee had survived it would have been a bit of a problem for Kirk. I suppose he could have visited her and the baby every so often if she had survived. Also I had the problem in sort of accepting Miramanee's death because we didn't see any blood or anything so it wasn't as real as Kirk holding back McCoy and hearing the car crash.

 

[johnnybear]

I think Kirk had fallen head over heels for Edith Keeler but with Miramanee he had spent eight months or more of his life with her and she was heavily pregnant with his child! To be honest he seemed more cut up about Reyna Copec whom wasn't even a real person than he was about these two ladies!
JB

 

[alensatemybuick1]

Just caught the end of Paradise Syndrome on BBC last night, and was reminded of something I'd noted before but never gave too much thought to - in the final shot, the credits for Fred Frieberger and Robert Justman are overlaid over Kirk emoting over Miramanee's death. Usually at least to my recollection, the credits only tend to appear as the FX shot of Enterprise flying off. Is this indeed a rare occurance of any end credits overlaid over live action in TOS?

 

[USS Triumphant]

What always got me about the end of "Paradise Syndrome" was the way McCoy and Spock show up and Miramanee is dying *right beside them* and they're all just focused on Kirk like "oh, that over there? that's just some dumb native woman dying - not our problem". I mean, I understand, Prime Directive and all that, but damn.

 

[Pauln6]

Miramanee's death was one played out in countless TV shows throughout the sixties through to the eighties. Tragic love interest dies in final scene. Hero hugs her but will be fully recovered by next week.

Edith's death was at least different.

 

[BillJ]

Keeler.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Just caught the end of Paradise Syndrome on BBC last night, and was reminded of something I'd noted before but never gave too much thought to - in the final shot, the credits for Fred Frieberger and Robert Justman are overlaid over Kirk emoting over Miramanee's death. Usually at least to my recollection, the credits only tend to appear as the FX shot of Enterprise flying off. Is this indeed a rare occurance of any end credits overlaid over live action in TOS?

Earlier in the series, there are plenty of episodes where the end credits can be seen over live action. Charlie X, Balance of Terror, The Corbomite Maneuver, The Menagerie (both parts), Tomorrow is Yesterday, Space Seed, to name a few. Perhaps in later episodes, it became more of a standard to leave them to the exterior shots. I am hard pressed to pull any other episodes from the third season out of my brain to use as an example and I don't have time at the moment to consult my home library.

 

[alensatemybuick1]

Thanks, Ssosmcin; just caught the very end of Errand of Mercy on MeTv, and noted the same thing. Just shows how little close attention I've paid over the past 40+ years.

Still, it looked odd to me somehow; maybe it is merely a rarity among 3rd season eps. Or maybe not? Guess I'll have to pay closer attention.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Still, it looked odd to me somehow; maybe it is merely a rarity among 3rd season eps. Or maybe not? Guess I'll have to pay closer attention.

Three things make it stand out in "The Paradise Syndrome": the text is placed over a close two-shot, it is artfully inserted where it won't cover faces (consciously respectful of the composition), and most of all, something meaningful is still happening in the scene.

Usually when end credits show up over people, it's a wide shot of the bridge, the text is indifferent to what it's covering, and there is nothing more happening in the scene for viewers to care about. It's a whole different vibe, nowhere near as artistic and "knowing."

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Both of these characters' deaths deeply affected Kirk. Edith's death scene shocked me, but the direction/editing transitioned quickly to Kirk's sorrow. I just watched Paradise Syndrome and I felt a lot of sympathy for Kirk when Miramanee passed away. The director focused on both Kirk and Miramanee for several minutes. Which of these last scenes do you think affected you more?

Edith, because we (the audience) knew her death was unavoidable, and Kirk would do nothing to stop it. Imagine being in his frame of mind once he learns she is the focal point true history rests on. Further, she was such a hopeful person that knowing she was doomed only added to the already smothering tension of those last few minutes. Every character reaction/action was absolutely perfect to make that last scene as powerful now as it was 50 years ago.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Miramanee's ...

Kirk's "accidental" inclusion into her society really screwed up the guest star's lives. Salish & Miramanee both lost all, thanks to "Kirok." And, of course, Kirk lost a lot, too, because of him. One of those "be careful what you wish for" kind of stories, when he finds himself living a (relatively) carefree life, like in his daydreams. Edith Keeler was very beautiful and very sweet, but I really hate to say this ... Edith's reason for dying seemed very false and forced to me.

We see her giving odd speeches to bent, old homeless people. We see some of her "gifted insight," as Spock calls it, during her talks with Kirk. But her literally "changing the world" doesn't ring true, for some reason. Probably because we only see it happening through Spock's words and a headline. If only Edith had already been in a correspondence with important people, just a line of dialogue about a former chance encounter with Eleanor Roosevelt would've given her denied destiny so much weight, to me. Then, her getting hit by a Mack truck would've really "hit" me hard. As it was, it just registers as Another Kirk Conquest Bites the Dust. But I love the actress playing her, she's exceedingly charming in the role ...

 

[Spock's Barber]

But I love the actress playing her, she's exceedingly charming in the role ...

"Oh, it's a rough life being a Starship Captain."

Shatner was practically drooling when he wrote in one of his books that he loved cavorting with Sabrina Scharf for 5 days of filming.

 

[johnnybear]

"Oh, it's a rough life being a Starship Captain."

Shatner was practically drooling when he wrote in one of his books that he loved cavorting with Sabrina Scharf for 5 days of filming.

Do you blame him my Lord?
JB

 

[Spock's Barber]

Do you blame him my Lord?
JB

No, JB. I ENVY him! I want to be Captain!

 

[JonnyQuest037]

City. Largely because it's better written, and it doesn't have to deal with the cheesiness of the American Indian stereotypes.

 

[Spock's Barber]

City. Largely because it's better written, and it doesn't have to deal with the cheesiness of the American Indian stereotypes.

Yes, my wife just asked me if Paradise Syndrome was a 'lost episode' because she'd never seen me watch it. I told her it wasn't my favorite because of the Big Chief Kirk silliness.

 

[Qonundrum]

I love both episodes, but if I had to choose I'd have to narrow it down something like this:

(a.) girl who runs pacifist organization. If she lives, Nazis ironically win. If she dies, Nazis ironically lose. The convenient "reset button" of the Guardian itself and Kirk already going into this time period already knowing what has to be done makes his reaction of grief somewhat ersatz.

(b.) girl who mistakes an amnesiac Kirk as a god after he fiddles randomly with some alien equipment controls while blabbering about wanting a peaceful life*, makes love with him (so he fiddles randomly with her), says she carries his unborn child (not seen in every episode of TOS so this definitely feels authentic), she and kid get viciously stoned to death (which is not exactly a very uplifting end for a 1960s TV show that, prior to season 3, had shiny happy endings all the time) because the number of internal injuries were too many and too severe for McCoy to heal in time (which feels somewhat authentic), and Kirk is openly grieving and there's no big magic rock to reset things and the situations he got into were not premeditated as with (a.) above...

* had this been a parody of Trek and made in the same year, Kirk-parody would be written to say "shock it to me" since Star Trek got moved to Friday to make way for the same show that created the catchphrase "Sock it to me!" Since "The Orville" is said to have characters that love 20th century Earth culture (since apparently there is none between the 21st and 23rd centuries?) there's an obvious joke just waiting to be plucked. ​

Gotta say (b.), because there was no magic reset button available and his emotional pain felt real. It would have made one heck of a grim episode of "Fantasy Island" or "Twilight Zone".