Why was DS9 in the Alpha Quadrant using the old TNG style phasers but Voyager and Equinox for that matter were using the Compression Phaser Rifles and Voyager even using the new FC Rifles (for some reason). Also why did Voyager and Equinox only carry those Compression Phaser Rifles but no other Starfleet Vessel... Other than those 2 security officers that beamed aboard the Prometheus in "Message in a Bottle"
DS9 Phaser Rifles
- Thread starter ThatsMrCaptaintoyou
- Start date
Maybe there were more TNG phaser rifle props than First Contact one. Maybe they were easier to produce.
Kira gave Ziyal a rundown of the type-3 rifle compared to those used by the Cardassians and she wasn't a huge fan as it was too high-tech, meaning too many things could go wrong with it and thus it wasn't as reliable, so I suspect the compression rifles were even more advanced making them not as good for long periods in the field when any prolonged maintenance would be seen as too costly/time consuming, so Starfleet stuck with its simpler design.
There was phaser rifles is DS9. I think they were first shown at the end of Season 3.
I suspect the hand phasers were used predominately for each of use and were a lot less intimidating and militaristic as refiles are, nor would they be required as they use of weapons on DS9 would be dealing with criminal suspects. It also makes sense that a high powered rifle wouldn't be used regularly on space station and vessels in case a high powered setting was accidentally used and caused a rupture.
Taken point that Bry_Sinclair made, in real life the AK-47 hasn't changed radically in it's design since it's introduction in the late forties and is still in demand today despite modern rifles being more accurate and having more range. The reason for this amongst others is reliability under harsh conditions, ease of use and ease of maintenance . Taking that to the ST universe, having a phaser would be the weapon of choice for the likes of the Maquis and Bajoran resistance groups.
I'd love to think that Janeway's rifles were different qualitatively, and specifically in that other sense of the word: not merely better versions of a thing, but different things altogether.
The Type 3 wielded by most Starfleet would be the assault rifle of the day (and the Type 2 the sub-machine gun or perhaps full-automatic pistol, while Type 1 is either the semi-automatic sidearm or the special concealed-carry Derringer). But the compression phaser could be the semi-automatic shotgun instead... And the rifle seen in ST:FC and, to comical effect, in DS9 "Empok Nor", would be the light machine gun, a squad weapon except when you face the Borg.
We simply see different styles of arming the away teams. Jean-Luc "By-the-Book" Picard uses the assault rifles, Kate "My Way" Janeway does not.
Timo Saloniemi
The Type 3 wielded by most Starfleet would be the assault rifle of the day (and the Type 2 the sub-machine gun or perhaps full-automatic pistol, while Type 1 is either the semi-automatic sidearm or the special concealed-carry Derringer). But the compression phaser could be the semi-automatic shotgun instead... And the rifle seen in ST:FC and, to comical effect, in DS9 "Empok Nor", would be the light machine gun, a squad weapon except when you face the Borg.
We simply see different styles of arming the away teams. Jean-Luc "By-the-Book" Picard uses the assault rifles, Kate "My Way" Janeway does not.
Timo Saloniemi
I always thought the transition of weapons were done quite well. What were the stardates for those episodes you're talking about? I think Voyager and DS9 could've had both weapons in the armory and could be used as needed.
Because those are the props they had at hand.
I don't think the producers of Deep Space Nine were particularly worried about things like that and rightly so. The type of phaser rifle makes no difference to the story being told.
In "Empok Nor" it sort of did, when our other heroes pack the meek standard rifle, and then Nog turns up toting the much more imposing and barbaric-looking ST:FC variant...
The very scene, well played to the intended humorous effect, also nicely sweeps any problems under the floor: no, the ST:FC rifle isn't a replacement for the TNG one, but a different weapon altogether, another option for the characters and TPTB to use as desired.
The VOY transition is a bit different. They are entitled to their own sort of rifle - but their sidearms suddenly get a remake that goes against their supposed plight where they are separated from resources and ideas. If they can suddenly rearm the entire crew, they aren't particularly convincing Robinsons.
I mean, the capacity is certainly plausible - Kirk supposedly could rearm his crew in "Day of the Dove" by manufacturing new phasers when the old ones were turned to swords. But it contrasts badly against Janeway's inability to replenish her torpedo stock early on.
Timo Saloniemi
The very scene, well played to the intended humorous effect, also nicely sweeps any problems under the floor: no, the ST:FC rifle isn't a replacement for the TNG one, but a different weapon altogether, another option for the characters and TPTB to use as desired.
The VOY transition is a bit different. They are entitled to their own sort of rifle - but their sidearms suddenly get a remake that goes against their supposed plight where they are separated from resources and ideas. If they can suddenly rearm the entire crew, they aren't particularly convincing Robinsons.
I mean, the capacity is certainly plausible - Kirk supposedly could rearm his crew in "Day of the Dove" by manufacturing new phasers when the old ones were turned to swords. But it contrasts badly against Janeway's inability to replenish her torpedo stock early on.
Timo Saloniemi
DS9 and the movies didn't use the Voyager rifles because the producers wanted to keep Voyager and DS9 as separate as possible to give them distinct identities as shows. This also translated to no Borg stories for DS9, very limited references to the Dominion and the end of the Maquis in Voyager, and a general seperation of props and sets. Despite all the ships in the Dominion War, we only ever saw one Intrepid class ship (the USS Bellpheron) in exactly one episode in the 7th season, and DS9 had to fight to use it. And we never saw an Intrepid class (or a Soverign class) in the big battle scenes. They were off limits. It was only in the CG era when they started to share ships Alpha Quadrant ships (when Voyager rarely showed them), but that was because of shared universe stuff.
DS9 did use the FC Rifles on at least one occasion as I recall, and Voyager did late in its run as well. The likely reason for their limited use was prop availability for the FC rifles (of which only some of them are "Hero rifles" that could be used in close ups). First Contact was filmed in Spring/Summer 1996. Insurrection was filmed in Spring/Summer 1998. DS9 Season 5 and DS9 Season 7 were filmed at almost exactly the same time with Season 6 being in the year in between. It's very likely the reason is as simple as the FC rifles were tied up in the TNG movie productions and the TNG rifles (or rather the DS9 modified versions of them with the reticle) were plentiful and availible. As I recall, Voyager only showed those FC rifles in its last two seasons, which were filmed in 1999 and 2000, between TNG productions.
Kind of supporting this point is that DS9 and Voyager often used the First Contact Tricorder after it was introduced, but also regularly used the second TNG Tricorder along side it. Again, likely because they only had so many "Hero props" they had to share around three simultaneous productions.
That's the most likely real world reason.
In universe, probably because Starfleet had them stockpiled and crews were using what they had available. It's worth remembering that the Cardassian Wars were little more than border skirmishes compared to what would come with the Dominion War, and that war deeply scarred the people involved. Starfleet was not a military organization in the 2350s and 2360s. But the Borg encounter in "Q Who?" started to make it one. We're supposed to believe from various sources that the compression phaser rifles, quantum torpedoes, the USS Defiant, the tactical systems of the Soveirgn class, most of the "Battle of Sector 001" ships started to transform starfleet into a potent defense force for maybe the first time ever (something that would fortuitously, save it during the Dominion War). That process wasn't complete by the early 2370s - the Federation fought the Dominion War with a lot more 100 year old ship designs than it did late 2360s design. The whole transition process didn't anticipate a major war. As Shelby said "we thought we had more time" due to how far away System J-25 was.
In universe, look at the Admiral Janeway future of 2404 (so 5 years after Picard Season 1). Federation defense technology had taken a quantum leap forward compared to the 2370s to the point that it had a torpedo that could destroy a cube in a single shot.
Then again, none of the listed systems appeared particularly potent. Quantum torps did less damage per shot than photons in the engagements where we saw them used; compression phasers were no different from regulars; the Defiant was a failure as an anti-Borg ship and then as an anti-Dominion one until our heroes learned a couple of tricks they could probably have applied had their ride been a Miranda, too; and the Sovereign was deemed unworthy of fighting the Borg in ST:FC.
Might be some of the stuff in-universe was supposed to be an improvement and a new wave, but then flopped and was not adopted. Might be some of it was never intended to replace anything of the old, merely to add new layers. Might be there were successes but we just don't get to see them before the TNG era folds for good. But it could also be that the 2404 Wunderwaffe stem from some other source entirely.
Timo Saloniemi
Might be some of the stuff in-universe was supposed to be an improvement and a new wave, but then flopped and was not adopted. Might be some of it was never intended to replace anything of the old, merely to add new layers. Might be there were successes but we just don't get to see them before the TNG era folds for good. But it could also be that the 2404 Wunderwaffe stem from some other source entirely.
Timo Saloniemi
only the Enterprise, and only because of its Captain.
I tend to look at phaser rifles in general as being no more powerful than hand phasers, but their larger size enables them to have bigger power packs/energy cells/whatever and last longer in a fight than their smaller cousins. Phaser rifles may also be more ideal for situations in which greater accuracy is required or for engagements in which a target is at a longer range than normal. The compression phaser rifles on Voyager and the First Contact phaser rifles may have been newest models in Starfleet's inventory, but the ones on DS9 were likely still the most common design at that point, IMO.
I'm not 100% on whether standard rifles should be more powerful per se, necessarily. Although I can easily imagine it being easier to use the "rifles" (actually carbines of course) at higher settings or longer ranges.
However, similar to HK's MP5 subbie vs VP70 pistol or FN's P90 vs Five-seveN, they might have the same/similar amount of "power", but more capacity particularly at the higher settings.
Similarly, I can just about imagine a fully-charged type-1 "cricket" being able to shoot one high-powered beam over a shortish distance, but repeated shots should be at stun or thermal settings only IMO.
Well, we didn't see any other Sovereigns in the fight, either. And if Picard really were the weak link, he would have been assigned a Class S shuttlecraft and his former ship would have perished valiantly in the battle under the command of Thomas Halloway.
Timo Saloniemi
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