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does spock pursuing vulcan/romulan unification seem ludicrous to anyone else?

Captain Triggered

Lieutenant
Red Shirt
what would a real world equivalent of this be? like some famed current englishman trying to get the united states to rejoin the english empire? for someone of his intellect it just seems so illogical to believe there's any way in hell that would go down? not even counting in what we know of the romulans.
 
Wouldn't it be more illogical to just say, "Ah screw it, too hard!"? Something being difficult is not a good reason not to try.
 
Wouldn't it be more illogical to just say, "Ah screw it, too hard!"? Something being difficult is not a good reason not to try.

i get that but i mean, geez. and the romulans were ready to declare war on the federation? why even have this goofy preamble of this "covert" hostile annexing of Vulcan. in any event the result will be immediate and total war with the federation. so why not just declare war?

and i'm sorry but this re-unification is so farfetched it's not even worth the logic of a debate about it. the pipiest of pipe dreams. this isn't kittyhawk. this is the wright brothers trying to invent warp drive with their tech

and that warship riker blowed up with one weak phaser burst. that ship was powerful, took their shields to 16% i believe? i get that it was loaded with weaponry but that .75 phaser shot to their shields completely blew them up? i didn't like that
 
Well, the unification has to start from something, Spock was doing the initiative, who knows where it might eventually lead.

For example, there's EU, not many people thought of that in the 70s, but here we are and who knows where it might lead over time.
 
Or the two Koreas. And while the Romulans may be a "great power", so are the Vulcans - again fittingly through their alliances rather than through any innate greatness. The balance of power seems to be much the same: Vulcan is allied with the side that can never lose, while Romulus can only exist by constantly posturing and being careful never to show the slightest sign of mental stability. The scheme of "Unification" fits in there just dandy...

Unification of Romulus and Vulcan is probably inevitable: Romulus will soon cease to exist due to its chosen lifestyle and circumstance, and somebody will be "unifying" with it at that point. Spock just wants to make damn sure it's the Vulcans.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Spock's missionary work needs more converts either that or Vulcans have to give up Surak.... mmmmm
 
It's not as if conversion would really help: neither the leaders nor their subjects can really choose to up and rejoin Vulcan. It would be suicide to everybody involved, and very literally so.

It's just that when the time is ripe (say, when the homestar mysteriously blows up), Spock will have prepared the ground for the inevitable.

Timo Saloniemi
 
what would a real world equivalent of this be? like some famed current englishman trying to get the united states to rejoin the english empire? for someone of his intellect it just seems so illogical to believe there's any way in hell that would go down? not even counting in what we know of the romulans.
I'd say it'd be like a Virginia resident trying to get England and Virginia back together. Not a perfect analogy though since the US and Great Britain have been on good terms for over 100 years, but it illustrates the point.
Vulcan is part of a larger government and the federation on a whole would need peace with the Romulans for any type of travel or trade from the empire to Vulcan
 
I'd say it would be like Sweden wanting to join forces with Saudi Arabia based on the premise they are the same species....
 
In STO, D'tan leads the reformist Romulan Republic from New Romulus. Reunification means letting go of fear, smile-that-hides-a-knife mentality, thought police. It means equality between Romulans, Remans and Vulcans; democracy, freedom, new pride (in rising from the ashes). The nations don't fuse literally.

By 2769, the Romulans are members of the Federation/Galactic Union.
 
Vulcan's pursuing it seems a bit far fetched, but Spock pursuing it seems rather fitting. I think no one is better suited for such an impossible thing. Why should we be looking for a real world example of something like this? It's a fictional universe. We let them dream about all sorts of stuff. How should this be any different?
 
It's not as if conversion would really help: neither the leaders nor their subjects can really choose to up and rejoin Vulcan.
Reunification might not have been in the political sense, more the Vulcan people and the Romulan people coming together culturally.

Vulcan and Romulas would still have separate governments, but with reunification of the two peoples there could be a end of hostility.
 
I think it was clear that Spock considered the subculture on Romulus, that was embracing Vulcan virtues, to be a natural progression for them, and he wanted to find a way to encourage it, & in doing so, there might be some common ground for the 2 peoples. I really don't think he ever expected them to rejoin Vulcan... only that they become LIKE Vulcans.
 
I think Spock's experience on the Enterprise prepared him for other cultures not wanting to be logical and in control of their emotions. He was probably more prepared for the cultural mismatch than any other Vulcans, but he felt they could find enough common ground to find a way to unify.

It probably depends on whether the destruction of Romulus really happened. I can see them turning to the Vulcans on the brink of extinction. It would just be really hard before then. They'd ally with the Federation before they reunified with Vulcan, unless they were pushed to the brink.
 
i get that but i mean, geez. and the romulans were ready to declare war on the federation? why even have this goofy preamble of this "covert" hostile annexing of Vulcan. in any event the result will be immediate and total war with the federation. so why not just declare war?

and i'm sorry but this re-unification is so farfetched it's not even worth the logic of a debate about it. the pipiest of pipe dreams. this isn't kittyhawk. this is the wright brothers trying to invent warp drive with their tech

and that warship riker blowed up with one weak phaser burst. that ship was powerful, took their shields to 16% i believe? i get that it was loaded with weaponry but that .75 phaser shot to their shields completely blew them up? i didn't like that
You've obviously never been at the beginning of a revolution. Neither have I but they all have to start somewhere. Maybe this is the spark that will light the eventual fire of a Vulcan/Romulan reunification.

By the way, I'm sure some would have had the same attitude about the Organian assurance that the Federation and the Klingon Empire would work together and become "fast friends"
 
I see it as a logical progression throughout Spock's life. The conflicted half-breed with 2 sides warring logical and emotional urges. When the Romulan commander from "The Enterprise Incident" learned of Spock's dual heritage, she played up the similarity to the Romulans' code of honor/duty and their ability to still embrace they emotional side. When speaking of Romulan women she said "as a Vulcan you would study it, as a human you would find ways to appreciate it."

When Spock finally accepted his emotional side for what it was in STTMP, he didn't go all emotional and go cuckoo like Daffy Duck. He began to explore his emotional side but still under the watchful eye of logic to guide those emotions. Once he trained himself, he went on to disciple others like the half Vulcan/Romulan Saavik. He could explore the problems of resolving her conflicting sides and watch them resolve on a personal level. He also discipled Valeris (presumably all Vulcan) with whatever issues she had. Sometimes you have a win like Saavik and sometimes you have a miss like Valeris. But Spock was learning from it.

By ST VI, he was starting to follow in the footsteps of his ambassador father. He helped to reach out and negotiate for a peace with the Klingon Empire at Sarek's request. Apparently, later he and Sarek had a disagreement during their attempts at easing Cardassian tensions. Perhaps Spock by this time was leaning more towards a more liberal emotional approach whereas Sarek wanted to pursue a more conservative logical approach. In both cases Spock had taken his discipleship on the personal level and was going to the next step and started mediating between two nations/worlds.

So it should come as no big surprise, when he finally up and decides to leave for Romulus and start his reunification attempts with Romulus. I don't see it as far-fetched. The Romulan Commander from "Balance of Terror" upheld his code of honor and duty and followed the Praetor's orders but came right out to the Centurion and said that he regretted that their victory would give Romulus the present of another war--one with enough blood to satisfy the Praetor's tastes. He sounded like one who wished for a little more restrained logical reasoning to temper the Preator's more bloodthirsty tendencies. He even told Kirk that in another reality that he could call him a friend. Even the Commander from "Enterprise Incident" wanted to follow her duty and capture the Enterprise but was reasonable towards the Enterprise crew and said she wouldn't hold them responsible for being a good soldier, doing their duty, and following the captain's unsanctioned orders. Unfortunately from The Next Generation and onward the writers didn't understand the Romulans and they degenerated into these "clever," scheming, smarmy bad guys. (The Vulcans didn't fair much better in DS9 or Enterprise .) So I can see Spock going to Romulus and making a connection with sympathizers. Showing them a way to change their empire from within--through the people and by the people-- peacefully in a way he thought Surak would have approved. He saw the Romulans ability to value their emotions as something that could benefit the rigid "Herbert-like" Vulcans. He saw the Vulcan logical discipline as something that could benefit and temper the Romulans' more aggressive soldier mentalities.
 
^ If you're asking whether Romulus will be destroyed in the 2387 of the Kelvin timeline? Who knows. Maybe, maybe not. But we all SAW its destruction in the prime timeline.
 
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