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Do the Cardassians fit as a representation British colonialism?

Citiprime

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
Maybe this is because I recently watched the Indian film RRR (Rise, Roar, Revolt) which portrays a version of the British Raj that will make you despise the actions of Her Majesty's government in India, but it hit me that the Cardassians in Star Trek are probably the closest in action and behavior to the British Empire.

I've seen arguments in the past about what the Cardassian-Bajoran relationship is supposed to be based on, with various people drawing parallels to the histories of various oppressed peoples; Jews, Palestinians, Armenians, Native Americans, the Chinese and Koreans under Imperial Japan, etc., throughout human history.

Most seem to generally think of the Cardassians as Star Trek's "Space Nazis" parallel, especially given the occupation of Bajor and their treatment of Bajorans. But there's several key distinctions. The Cardassians don't seem to have an ideology based around scapegoating the Bajorans for all of Cardassia's problems (i.e., Cardassian arrogance would never allow them to admit a mistake or weakness). As awful as the deaths associated with the Bajoran occupation are depicted, nothing in canon indicates the Cardassians had a policy of genocide against the Bajorans as some sort of "final solution" of exterminating the Bajorans.

Another take on the Cardassians is that over the course of TNG and DS9 they're various stages of the Soviet Union, especially given the Cardassian government's official name is the "Cardassian Union," and a sort of Stalinist structure of the state. The entire society is centered around family, duty, and the glorification of the state. On the other hand, there's never an indication that the Cardassians are driven by (or even using as a facade) some form of ideology at their core. There's never an indication that they're trying to bend the galaxy towards the spread of some form of Cardassian communism (or whatever they would call their ideology).

What has been depicted in canon indicates the Cardassians were driven by: 1) Economics, stealing other peoples resources and territories to support their own imperial desires, and 2) Paternalism, the belief that they were "caring" for lesser cultures and enlightening them with civilization, even if their methods were brutal, unwanted, and murderous.

All of that sounds a hell of a lot like the history of British colonial rule in many countries.

Gul Dukat's lament about how he was not appreciated by the Bajorans as their "liberator," and those scenes take on the dimension of an abusive father upset of how his "children" can't recognize his greatness, and innate right to rule. If you compare that sentiment to those of people who defended the generational rule of the British Raj, or rationalized actions like the murdering of unarmed men, women, and children at the Amritsar Massacre as "necessary" for order and civilization, then it sounds a lot like the Cardassians.

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They fit as lots of things.

the belief that they were "caring" for lesser cultures and enlightening them with civilization, even if their methods were brutal, unwanted, and murderous.
I've never bought it. It just sounds like BS justification to me. Nothing about their actions makes me believe that they really thought they were helping. I can buy it that Cardassian citizens bought into the propaganda that said that, but the people actually making the decisions knew exactly what they were doing.
 
What has been depicted in canon indicates the Cardassians were driven by: 1) Economics, stealing other peoples resources and territories to support their own imperial desires

But it wasn't imperial desires. Or it wasn't just imperial desires. Cardassia was in sad shape and needed the resources of conquered or plundered lands to simply survive. Or so they thought.

MADRED: What a blind, narrow view you have. What an arrogant man you are. What do you know of Cardassian history?
PICARD: I know that once you were a peaceful people with a rich spiritual life.
MADRED: And what did peace and spirituality get us? People starved by the millions. Bodies went unburied. Disease was rampant. Suffering was unimaginable.
PICARD: Since the military took over hundreds of thousands more have died.
MADRED: But we are feeding the people. We acquired territory during the wars. We developed new resources. We initiated a rebuilding programme. We have mandated agricultural programmes. That is what the military has done for Cardassia. And because of that, my daughter will never worry about going hungry.
PICARD: Her belly may be full, but her spirit will be empty.
(Madred hits him)

If not for the military conquest, people would have starved or died of disease. Something dreadful happened to Cardassian civilization that allowed opportunity for the military to take charge and launch a campaign of plunder.

Fortunately Britain never faced such dreadful conditions.

But, yeah, Cardassia does fit as an allegory for European imperialism (I wouldn't limit it to just British. Go ask the Congolese about Belgium)
 
I always saw it as a metaphor for the Israel-Palestine conflict first and foremost, but it also works as a metaphor for any situation where a technologically superior force acts as though colonised peoples are theirs to do with as they please.
 
I think it works better as an allegory, rather than a straight similie - it speaks to a "general type," several other examples of that type have been mentioned in this thread.

dJE
 
The strong oppressing the weak is a sad, recurring theme throughout human history. British colonialism, Nazi tyranny, American "manifest destiny" and Jim Crow laws, it's all different frostings on the same rotten cake.
This.
I always saw it as a metaphor for the Israel-Palestine conflict first and foremost, but it also works as a metaphor for any situation where a technologically superior force acts as though colonised peoples are theirs to do with as they please.
And a bit of this too.
I think it works better as an allegory, rather than a straight similie - it speaks to a "general type," several other examples of that type have been mentioned in this thread.

dJE
So overall, this.
 
Perception means a lot of things to a lot of people. Some claim the Federation represents colonialism, etc.

Human history is replete with rather a lot, not to mention that other issue of arbitrary cutoff date is another one as well, since history has existed for more than 5000 years and all. I'm pretty sure the history told to new generations as spoken word, with no parchment as basepoint, may have ended up being altered over the aeons as well. But that's yet another tangent.

Most seem to generally think of the Cardassians as Star Trek's "Space Nazis" parallel, especially given the occupation of Bajor and their treatment of Bajorans. But there's several key distinctions. The Cardassians don't seem to have an ideology based around scapegoating the Bajorans for all of Cardassia's problems (i.e., Cardassian arrogance would never allow them to admit a mistake or weakness). As awful as the deaths associated with the Bajoran occupation are depicted, nothing in canon indicates the Cardassians had a policy of genocide against the Bajorans as some sort of "final solution" of exterminating the Bajorans.

Was any distinctly told in an episode or two? If not, will there be a prequel to spoonfeed someone else's vision? That's the flipside to the argument of letting viewers drawing their own conclusions. There are good and bad elements to both sides.

Another take on the Cardassians is that over the course of TNG and DS9 they're various stages of the Soviet Union, especially given the Cardassian government's official name is the "Cardassian Union," and a sort of Stalinist structure of the state. The entire society is centered around family, duty, and the glorification of the state. On the other hand, there's never an indication that the Cardassians are driven by (or even using as a facade) some form of ideology at their core. There's never an indication that they're trying to bend the galaxy towards the spread of some form of Cardassian communism (or whatever they would call their ideology).

Which makes it all the more fascinating.

Also, remember when Kruge made snide quips about the Federation flag by the side of a family? Klingons were said to have represented Communism too in TOS, before TNG expanded the universe.

What has been depicted in canon indicates the Cardassians were driven by: 1) Economics, stealing other peoples resources and territories to support their own imperial desires, and 2) Paternalism, the belief that they were "caring" for lesser cultures and enlightening them with civilization, even if their methods were brutal, unwanted, and murderous.

The same could be said for any grouping. Romulans did their own colonizing. So did the Klingons. So did the Federation. Note how Kirk traipsed on in and destroyed Vaal, after the usual weekly argument between Spock and McCoy, based on only one factor, oversimplified. And we never saw the aftermath, though it doesn't take much creativity to guess - especially from a pessimistic point of view. Now for the example of TOS having visited a downer-society but actually improving it by the time the episode ends... might "A Taste of Armageddon" come close to such a description?
 
I always saw it as a metaphor for the Israel-Palestine conflict first and foremost, but it also works as a metaphor for any situation where a technologically superior force acts as though colonised peoples are theirs to do with as they please.

It depended on the episode. Arab/Israeli, Soviet, Nazi... These historic incidents are all reflected in one Cardassian episode or another. There was even inspiration taken from WWII Japanese comfort women
 
The Cardassians' actions towards Bajor definitely have shades of British colonialism in India and in other countries. It also has parallels with other forms of colonialism and imperialism; I think the authorial intent is that it serve as an allegory for many different kinds of colonialism and imperialism, not just one historical scenario. I often do think that Cardassian culture feels to me like a fantastical version of a combination of English and Russian cultures.
 
They fit as lots of things.

I've never bought it. It just sounds like BS justification to me. Nothing about their actions makes me believe that they really thought they were helping. I can buy it that Cardassian citizens bought into the propaganda that said that, but the people actually making the decisions knew exactly what they were doing.
So did the British
 
Why are we singling out the British here? A lot of European powers did about the same things in their colonies - the British just did it to a larger part of the globe.
 
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^ I haven't really seen it mentioned specifically, and I still don't, when reading back for a 2nd time.

That is, more general arguments have been made that it is about the oppression of the weak by the strong, heaping for example Nazi oppression and British colonialism in the same very general basket for the purposes of the discussion, and how it's more a simile than an exact analogy. To which in general, I can agree.

But the opening poster is specifically differentiating between British colonialism, and Nazi oppression, as for example the lack of a specific systematic genocide program testifies in his/her eyes.

So now I'm wondering why (s)he specifically takes British colonialism, and not European colonialism of that era more in general.
 
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^ You're right, my apologies.

Weirdly enough, I still didn't notice that remark, not even when reading specifically your post for the third time (while I very clearly remembered the remark a line above it, about fortunately Britain never having faced such dreadful conditions). Seems I unconsciously just skipped over it, so perhaps I should start working a bit on my skills of reading carefully.
 
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Except the Cardassians weren't afraid to pull out of Bajor because the Bajorans were dead set on exterminating them.
 
Maybe this is because I recently watched the Indian film RRR (Rise, Roar, Revolt) which portrays a version of the British Raj that will make you despise the actions of Her Majesty's government in India, but it hit me that the Cardassians in Star Trek are probably the closest in action and behavior to the British Empire.

I've seen arguments in the past about what the Cardassian-Bajoran relationship is supposed to be based on, with various people drawing parallels to the histories of various oppressed peoples; Jews, Palestinians, Armenians, Native Americans, the Chinese and Koreans under Imperial Japan, etc., throughout human history.

Most seem to generally think of the Cardassians as Star Trek's "Space Nazis" parallel, especially given the occupation of Bajor and their treatment of Bajorans. But there's several key distinctions. The Cardassians don't seem to have an ideology based around scapegoating the Bajorans for all of Cardassia's problems (i.e., Cardassian arrogance would never allow them to admit a mistake or weakness). As awful as the deaths associated with the Bajoran occupation are depicted, nothing in canon indicates the Cardassians had a policy of genocide against the Bajorans as some sort of "final solution" of exterminating the Bajorans.

Another take on the Cardassians is that over the course of TNG and DS9 they're various stages of the Soviet Union, especially given the Cardassian government's official name is the "Cardassian Union," and a sort of Stalinist structure of the state. The entire society is centered around family, duty, and the glorification of the state. On the other hand, there's never an indication that the Cardassians are driven by (or even using as a facade) some form of ideology at their core. There's never an indication that they're trying to bend the galaxy towards the spread of some form of Cardassian communism (or whatever they would call their ideology).

What has been depicted in canon indicates the Cardassians were driven by: 1) Economics, stealing other peoples resources and territories to support their own imperial desires, and 2) Paternalism, the belief that they were "caring" for lesser cultures and enlightening them with civilization, even if their methods were brutal, unwanted, and murderous.

All of that sounds a hell of a lot like the history of British colonial rule in many countries.

Gul Dukat's lament about how he was not appreciated by the Bajorans as their "liberator," and those scenes take on the dimension of an abusive father upset of how his "children" can't recognize his greatness, and innate right to rule. If you compare that sentiment to those of people who defended the generational rule of the British Raj, or rationalized actions like the murdering of unarmed men, women, and children at the Amritsar Massacre as "necessary" for order and civilization, then it sounds a lot like the Cardassians.

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Why limit oneself to British imperialism? Why not all kinds of imperialism?
 
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