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Did Roddenberry Have a Fixation With Ancient Rome?

WendyNotsid

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Red Shirt
This has probably already been answered, but I couldn't help but notice.

Vulcans
James TIBERIUS Kirk
Romuluns

Also, I looked up the name "Deanna" and it's a Latin name (I made sure that the site I went to wasn't referring to Hispanic-Latin).

This might seem like a stupid question but, was this ever discussed.
 
I would have to say yes, I'm inclined to believe that Gene Roddenberry may have been interested in ancient Greek and Roman culture, as well as mythology. I mean, you have the Vulcans, the parallel Romulans (not unlike Romulus and Remus, and even the latter is a planet), you have the appearance of the Greek god Apollo (I think), there is the Roman-parallel planet, and then you see the Platonians that were influenced by ancient Greek society and the philosopher Plato.
 
Then again, the precedent for naming planets after figures from Roman mythology derives from real life: Mercury, Mars, Venus, Jupiter, etc.
 
Indeed, "Vulcan" was the proposed name for a hypothetical planet that was suspected to exist within Mercury's orbit (it was thought to be the reason for Mercurian orbital anomalies that were eventually explained by General Relativity). The planet was proposed in 1840 and wasn't disproven until 1915, so the idea was part of the culture for some time and continued to be remembered even after 1915. Various SF authors used the cis-Mercurian Vulcan in stories in the 1930s and after. So it was around in the popular culture as a name for an alien planet during Roddenberry's youth. (And Doctor Who independently had a planet Vulcan in a 1966 episode, after ST premiered but before England would've seen it.)

There's no need to postulate any "fixation" on Roddenberry's part. Anyone who grew up in Western culture, and received the kind of classical education that's apparently less common today than it was in his generation or mine, would have been steeped in Roman cultural references. For centuries, Western civilization has fancied itself the descendant of the great Greek and Roman civilizations of antiquity, and pretty much all of Western civilization is loaded with allusions to Greece and Rome. Any "fixation" is society-wide.

Also, Roddenberry didn't create the Romulans. Paul Schneider did. Apollo was created by Gilbert Ralston and Gene Coon. The Platonians were created by Meyer Dolinsky, after Roddenberry had stepped back from the showrunner role. It's a huge mistake to assume everything in ST was created by Roddenberry personally. He liked to give that impression after the fact, but in reality his greatest contribution was in gathering together a group of talented people who had good ideas of their own.

Same with TNG. We don't know if Roddenberry himself came up with Deanna Troi's name. He got sole creator credit for TNG, but in reality it was a joint creation with David Gerrold, Bob Justman, and D.C. Fontana.

As for the Roman planet in "Bread and Circuses," yes, GR did co-write that one, but as with all their "Earth-parallel" episodes, it was written to take advantage of leftover props, costumes, and set pieces from earlier historical movies and shows. It doesn't show any "fixation" beyond a smart TV producer's determination to save money.

Besides, if Roddenberry had had some kind of abnormal "fixation" on Ancient Rome, wouldn't it logically follow that the TV series he created would've been about Ancient Rome?? Instead, the first show he created was about a present-day Marine Corps lieutenant on a stateside base in peacetime; the second was a cop show (which never went past the pilot); and all the rest were science fiction or supernatural mystery. That sure doesn't seem like a Roman fixation to me. It seems like the career of a TV producer who started out writing what he knew (military and police), then tried out a different genre (SF), and then stuck with that genre for the rest of his career because it was the one that had brought him the most success.
 
There was a pretty big "Greco-Roman revival" in the US around the time ST was gestating--some of this carries over in the Roman details, most likely. It was just current at the time. If they had kept the show on long enough they probably would have gone to a planet themed like a tiki bar.

Christopher, which DW story had a planet called Vulcan? I had never heard about that.
 
There was a pretty big "Greco-Roman revival" in the US around the time ST was gestating--some of this carries over in the Roman details, most likely. It was just current at the time. If they had kept the show on long enough they probably would have gone to a planet themed like a tiki bar.

I fully concur. It was "the times." :bolian: Also, the Greeks and Romans were cultures of huge influence on the course of human development. It's only natural to be attracted to the theme, depicting a similar kind of culture on other worlds.
 
I fully concur. It was "the times." :bolian: Also, the Greeks and Romans were cultures of huge influence on the course of human development.

I didn't watch TOS in the 60s, but it was part of the public consciousness. However... my (elementary) school friends and I were heavily into reading Greek and Roman myths and legends in 1968. Very much a 60s thing. We went into the city on an excursion once and found this fountain, and we stood gazing at it for ages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archibald_Fountain
 
I didn't watch TOS in the 60s, but it was part of the public consciousness. However... my (elementary) school friends and I were heavily into reading Greek and Roman myths and legends in 1968. Very much a 60s thing. We went into the city on an excursion once and found this fountain, and we stood gazing at it for ages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archibald_Fountain
I saw that fountain on my trip to Sydney, so I can relate. I admired the design quite a lot, definitely echoing some aspects of Greek/Roman design. And the park situated behind it is wonderful to behold in the evening, when all of the lights turn on in the trees. It's a huge ambient lighted canopy across a long walkway with park benches on either side. :)
 
It's not just a '60s thing. It's been a recurring theme in Western civilization for centuries. Look at the design of the White House, the US Capitol, the New York Public Library or Stock Exchange, etc. Look at all the public statuary, fountains, etc. modeled on Greco-Roman art. Heck, the city I live in, Cincinnati, was named for a Roman dictator. Western society has long had this myth of Greece and Rome as the pinnacle of civilization, and has sought to claim to be their direct continuation or heir. And fascination with Greco-Roman mythology goes back much earlier than the '60s, to Edith Hamilton, to Bulfinch, to Byron, to Shakespeare.
 
David Gerrold gave Kirk the middle name Tiberius, not GR.
I always thought the middle name "Tiberius" was Dorothy Fontana's idea. Have I been wrong all these years?
. . . Western society has long had this myth of Greece and Rome as the pinnacle of civilization, and has sought to claim to be their direct continuation or heir. And fascination with Greco-Roman mythology goes back much earlier than the '60s, to Edith Hamilton, to Bulfinch, to Byron, to Shakespeare.
Not to mention the modern revival of the Olympic Games in the 1890s -- and the hundreds of Italian peplum films.

So, do you like movies about gladiators? :)
 
Gerrold was the first to write an episode (TAS: "Bem") in which Kirk gave his middle name onscreen as Tiberius, but the idea presumably came from Roddenberry, given that the title character in Roddenberry's first series, The Lieutenant, was Marine Lieutenant William Tiberius Rice.
 
"Camelot" premered on Broadway in the early sixies. The music was such a smash that it influence everything in the US for years past. JFKs administraton was called a "Camelot". I agree, the Greek/Roman mythology in the culture at the time.
 
I think there been a Roman fixation in Europe ( and by extention America) since the days of the Empire. Often by the very "barbarians" who displaced them. ;)
 
I think there been a Roman fixation in Europe ( and by extention America) since the days of the Empire. Often by the very "barbarians" who displaced them. ;)

Oh, definitely. After they overthrew or replaced the previous civilization, they wanted to borrow its cachet of legitimacy for themselves, make use of its symbolic power.
 
I think Roddenberry's interest was kindled by one too many toga parties in the sixties. Ah who am I kidding, you can never have too many toga parties.
 
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