DC and Marvel merged

[Anwar]

Someone else posted this on another forum, but I thought it was an imaginative enough concept to discuss here:

Some of the DC/Marvel crossovers have had Spider-man and Superman sharing universes before, but if the concept was done, how would you go about creating an else world where the Justice League and the Avengers all shared the same history? Which DC heroes fought with Captain America and the invaders in WWII? How do the Lantern Corps deal with various cosmic Marvel issues like the Kree and Skrull or Galactus? How do the Avengers and JL get along?

I have my own thoughts on this:

This might mean that all of DC's own heroes operate in real-life cities like Marvels' do. So this would mean Batman would either be in NYC or Chicago (that's what Nolan used as Gotham in his movies). Thus, Batman wouldn't be able to keep up his "Urban Legend" BS in a city that likely would have other superbeings.

An interesting running plot could be both Lex Luthor and Bruce Wayne trying to take over Stark Industries for separate reasons: Luthor wants Tony's tech, Bruce thinks Stark is an irresponsible "Death Merchant" who needs to be shut down. Maybe he found out that Stark Industries produced the gun model that was used to kill his parents (when Howard Stark founded the company) for Freudian effect.

Public opinion might be that everyone thinks there's a competition between Captain America and Superman for bigger hero to the public (some would think Cap is resentful that Supes makes him look like a B-Lister) but in truth they get along just fine with Cap being okay with Supes' greater power.

In fact, Clark Kent and Peter Parker could work together on many projects towards better representation of Superheroes by the media. Neither knowing the truth about the other.

Metahumans would either be seen as the next step towards humanity becoming mutants and thus feared, or they would be seen by Mutant haters as proof that humanity can fight back against natural mutants and their growing population.

The real bloodbath would in space, with the Green Lanterns having to deal with the Skrulls, Kree and Shiar who all emerged as great empires because the Lanterns were too busy fighting the Celestials and Galactus for millions of years.

The Watchers would be another Maltusian offshoot with the Oans and Controllers.

Lex Luthor's whole "Superman is an alien, he can't be trusted!" spiel might have more ground in the more paranoid and hostile Marvelverse. After all, the public might assume that since Kryptonians look just like humans they are actually infiltrating us for a takeover someday.

 

[O'Dib]

No one can keep a secret identity from superman. He can x-ray under masks for your your true features.

As far as mixing these worlds, I think they're both overpopulated to begin with. Amalgam had a good idea, but the execution was rubbish. Batman/wolverine? I always thought Daredevil was Batman's Marvel doppelganger, and much cooler than the original, in fact. The thing about Murdock being blind and perceiving the world through sonar is a much more appropriate trait for someone pretending to be a bat.

 

[Anwar]

Well, if the mask had lead in it his x-rays are useless...

And besides, he's not a peeping tom. I doubt he'd go around x-raying every superhero. Batman, MAYBE. Mainly because I doubt Batman in a Marvel-ish setting would be the Marty Stu he is in DC and might be more desperate to keep up with the more hostile world and other superbeings.

 

[Christopher]

I wish you'd titled the thread something like "What if DC and Marvel merged?" For a moment there, I thought this was an announcement of some huge, if unlikely, entertainment news.

If the heroes were in the same universe, I doubt you'd have both the Justice League and the Avengers, since they basically occupy the same niche. Rather, you'd have one organization that encompassed the top heroes from both companies. Stark Industries would've built the Watchtower.

And LuthorCorp would probably have gobbled up OsCorp a long time ago. Norman would be a subordinate to Lex, although probably a high-ranking subordinate. Maybe he could've taken over the company while Lex was president.

Ooh, what if Clark Kent and Lois Lane worked at the Daily Bugle under JJJ and Robbie? Peter Parker could fill the Jimmy Olsen niche.

 

[Anwar]

First, you're right about the title. Can a mod change that, please?

And two, I LOVE that idea about the Daily Planet staff working with the Bugle staff as one. But keep Jonah as the Publisher .

Norman being a LexCorp Director would at least give him reason for being the Goblin: Superpowers and a good mob faction under his thumb would allow him to break free from Luthor and be a businessman on his own (if he was a LexCorp scientist to begin with). Norman was the first evil businessman before Lex though.

 

[Jetfire]

Would Superman see The Punisher as a criminal I wonder???

 

[Broccoli]

If those two universes merged, it would be insane! There are just waaaaay to many heroes and villains to do anything effective. I would think the fake cities would exist along side with the real cities. The JLA and Avengers would probably merge (Justice League Avengers, perhaps).

I doubt Bruce would go gunning after Stark Industries...at least not after he learns Tony is Iron Man (and you know he would). I do see LexCorp taking over OsCorp...and then Goblin pumpkin bombing the hell out of Luthor.

I can see mutant hate go down considering how people view superheroes in the DCU. However, I can also see the reverse being true with more of a negative slant towards superheroes such as Superman happening. That is one thing I never liked much about the Marvel universe...people hate mutants because they have powers, but they seem to like superheroes who have powers. Anyone see the contradiction here?

JJJ would still hate Spider-Man.

Would Superman see The Punisher as a criminal I wonder???

Probably...he saw Batman as a criminal at first.

 

[O'Dib]

Would Superman see The Punisher as a criminal I wonder???

Who doesn't?

 

[Avalon]

Ooh, what if Clark Kent and Lois Lane worked at the Daily Bugle under JJJ and Robbie? Peter Parker could fill the Jimmy Olsen niche.

Weird -- I was just thinking that same thought a few days ago! Only I was also trying to figure out how to fit Perry White in there, too. I imagine the fireworks between Perry and J. would be too good to pass up...

I'd keep Jimmy. I'm just too tempted by all the ways Peter would have to keep him from getting the pict-- er, out of harm's way. Yeah, I know Peter's a good guy and would never do anything underhanded. I just like the mental image of Jimmy webbed to a wall somewhere thinking, "What the heck just happened?". And Clark looking up and thinking, "Well, at least that'll keep him out of trouble for the next twenty minutes..."

Heh. Anyway. I'd also like to see a BATMAN/DEADPOOL TEAM-UP oneshot. Because Bats doesn't have enough to be annoyed about already...

 

[Anwar]

I'd put Batman and Punisher in the same city (Chicago would be the Gotham equivalent, since Nolan filmed his movies there). A twist would be that while Batman and Gordon are against Castle (in fact, have Castle be an ex-cop who worked with Gordon and Batman in the past) he has many supporters in the public and in the police force as well since they see him as more effective against the mobsters and nuts like the Joker for wanting to kill them. Thus he has informants throughout the city warning him of Batman, and whenever he's caught a sympathetic cop might let him escape.

I do think that the widespread love the DC heroes enjoy wouldn't exist in this merged world. Lex Luthor's "He's an untrustworthy alien!" thing would have more grounds with the public.

Martian Manhunter would get scrutiny thanks to the other green shapeshifters who attack Earth.

Dr Doom would find out about the Anti-Life Equation and want it for himself, or maybe go to Apokolips to try and steal the Omega Effect from Darkseid.

I doubt Bruce would go gunning after Stark Industries...at least not after he learns Tony is Iron Man (and you know he would).

I agree, but an opening storyline that would run for a while would be him wanting Star Industries since he thinks Stark is irresponsible (and the more freudian reasoning being that under Howard Stark, SI created the gun model that killed the Waynes) which brings him to the attention of Justin Hammer, Obadiah Stane, Edwin Cord, etc. Then when Stark retaliates by setting up a branch in Bruce's city there's an outright confrontation which leads to a truce when both discovers the others' identity.

Batman would be less a Marty Stu this universe around, if the DC characters were in a Marvel setting.

 

[Christopher]

Would Superman see The Punisher as a criminal I wonder???

Hell, yes. The Punisher is a serial killer with an excuse. Guy belongs in Arkham with the rest of the violent maniacs. (Well, maybe not Arkham, because he'd break out in, like, five seconds...)

Ooh, what if Clark Kent and Lois Lane worked at the Daily Bugle under JJJ and Robbie? Peter Parker could fill the Jimmy Olsen niche.

Weird -- I was just thinking that same thought a few days ago! Only I was also trying to figure out how to fit Perry White in there, too. I imagine the fireworks between Perry and J. would be too good to pass up...

Technically, Perry has the same job as Robbie Robertson, editor rather than publisher.


If the universes were merged, do you suppose Superman would've caught the Burglar before he shot Ben Parker? And then Superman would've sat down that showboating Spider-Man guy who let the Burglar get away and given him a stern lecture about power and responsibility...

 

[Jetfire]

Here is another question...How does The Legion Of Superheroes fit into this???

I am a big fan of Superman & The Legion...forgive me.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Someone else posted this on another forum, but I thought it was an imaginative enough concept to discuss here:

Some of the DC/Marvel crossovers have had Spider-man and Superman sharing universes before, but if the concept was done, how would you go about creating an else world where the Justice League and the Avengers all shared the same history? Which DC heroes fought with Captain America and the invaders in WWII? How do the Lantern Corps deal with various cosmic Marvel issues like the Kree and Skrull or Galactus? How do the Avengers and JL get along?

I have a folder of notes for a Superman/Spider-Man crossover that I would love to write. Basically...

About a decade ago, DC Comics published a maxi-series called Batman/Superman: World's Finest which looked at the evolving relationship between Superman and Batman from their earliest days to the present by charting their meetings at yearly intervals. (The internal chronology doesn't work. It compresses Batman's career way to much; at this point, I really think DC needs to bite the bullet and disconnect Superman and Batman's debuts, but that's an argument for another time.)

I would like to do something like that with Superman and Spider-Man. From Spider-Man's early days in high school, through his college years, his marriage to Mary Jane, and on to the present, and contrast that against Superman's debut through his death, resurrection, marriage, onward to today. One of my favorite notes in the file has Spider-Man hanging out with the Superman-led Justice League of the early 90s, with Spidey, Booster, and Blue Beetle having to crack a case when Superman gets sidelined.

 

[O'Dib]

Oooh, too bad Spidey's never been married!

 

[Anwar]

Well, maybe Spidey joins the Teen Titans when they first form and is a member of the present day Titans as a result? Him and Robin/Nightwing would get along easy, since Stan Lee said that Spider-Man's personality was based on the wisecracking teen sidekick seen in Captain America and Batman.

After all, maybe being with superpowered teens his own age instead of adults like the Fantastic Four (except Johnny) would appeal to him more.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Marvel already has a several fictional locations (Wakanda, Latveria Madripoor ect) so I don't see the DC fictional cities as being a problem. All the organizations would probably still continue to exist without any mergers.

I cant see Batman caring about Stark Industries unless they commited some sort of crime in Gotham. Batman going after the company that made the gun that killed his parents doesn't match Batman's MO. He hasn't targeted gun manufacturers in the past. Not sure SI would be in that end of weapons anyway.

 

[Anwar]

It's just that Gotham and Metropolis both seem to be NYC, and since Marvel uses mostly real world locations for the American heroes they may as well have them exist in real cities for the DC ones to. Chicago would be the best bet for Batman since that's what Nolan used for Gotham anyways, and NYC allows Superman and Luthor to co-exist with Spider-Man and Norman Osborn.

I'd say that since SHIELD has existed for a long time and Nick Fury is in his 90s, General Rock would be an old pal of his as well as SHIELD's American liason (since it's a UN organization). Task Force X/Suicide Squad and Checkmate would likely be SHIELD subsidiaries with Amanda Waller reporting to Fury (though probably wanting his position).

If we need a better reason for Batman to be antagonistic to Stark, maybe have Stark weaponry end up in the hands of thugs Batman is fighting or his villains get their tech from Stark (without him knowing). Having them be business rivals makes for a more interesting setting then them as friends or just two businesses that co-exist.

 

[Roshi]

I read somewhere that Marvel is going to change its name and will become Amazing Comics. The merger will be known as AC/DC. I'm sure it's going to be electric!

 

[Nerys Myk]

Marvels NYC is already crawling with heroes, dumping Superman there wouldn't help matters.

As for Batman, Gotham and Batman go together like peanut butter an jelly. No need to change it. Yeah, Chicago played Gotham and Christian Bale played Batman, but I dont want Batman to be an actor named Christian Bale. I see Stark as a business rival of Wayne. Something to be mentioned in passing in both books. I supose there could be a "misunderstanding" that leads to a fight and then a team up against the real villians. (thats never been done )

 

[Christopher]

It's just that Gotham and Metropolis both seem to be NYC, and since Marvel uses mostly real world locations for the American heroes they may as well have them exist in real cities for the DC ones to.

Well, Smallville has retconned Metropolis into a city in Kansas.

I recall a book called The Atlas of the DC Universe that put Gotham in New Jersey and Metropolis in Delaware, so that they and NYC formed a whole huge megalopolis. I always had trouble buying that, since if Metropolis were in Delaware, there probably wouldn't be much left of Delaware.

(Keep in mind that NYC does exist in the DC Universe; it's the home base of the Titans.)

I also don't care for the idea of Metropolis and Gotham being so close together, since what's to stop Superman from popping over to Gotham and cleaning it up on his lunch hours? I like the idea of putting greater distance between them.

But if you're going to have Batman in this putative universe, you've got to have Gotham City. They're inseparable. Chicago just wouldn't cut it. Putting Superman in NYC is okay, redundancy of heroes aside, but Batman and Gotham are a package deal.

I'd say that since SHIELD has existed for a long time and Nick Fury is in his 90s, General Rock would be an old pal of his as well as SHIELD's American liason (since it's a UN organization).

This is one of the main problems with a merger of the universes -- too many of their characters and organizations pretty much duplicate each other. Sometimes directly and intentionally. For instance, the Shi'ar Imperial Guard is a direct pastiche of the Legion of Super Heroes. If they were one and the same universe, some things would have to give. Some agencies, some heroes, some villains, some publications, some cities just wouldn't exist, and the characters would be mixed and matched in the organizations and teams that did exist.

If we need a better reason for Batman to be antagonistic to Stark, maybe have Stark weaponry end up in the hands of thugs Batman is fighting or his villains get their tech from Stark (without him knowing). Having them be business rivals makes for a more interesting setting then them as friends or just two businesses that co-exist.

I don't see the point in a Batman-Iron Man conflict. They're very similar characters, and I think they'd recognize the value of cooperation. Although Batman would certainly have been anti-Stark during Civil War.


Hey, yeah, that's the big question: which DC characters would've been on which side in Civil War?