Could El-Aurian's be Time Lords?

[Bry_Sinclair]

Just been pondering this for a little while and thought I would put it to the masses.

In "Yesturday's Enterprise" Guinan is aware of the change in timeline without any use of technology. Then in "Time's Arrow" she is on Earth, though no one asks how (maybe she has a TARDIS tucked away somewhere).

She has been to many different worlds and knows Q very well. She is shown to have great wisdom and no one actually knows how long they live for.

Any thoughts?

 

[ChristopherPike]

Probably just exposure to the Nexus, that gave her that ability to sense changes in the timeline. El-Aurian don't seem to be time-travellers. For instance, in "Time's Arrow" she's around 19th Century San Francisco because she's younger than we've ever seen her. Supposed to head back to El-Auria on her Father's say-so, and thinks Data's been sent to retrieve her.

 

[Seven of Five]

Yeah, the El-Aurians were just a long-lived species, which is why Guinan could be on Earth in the 1800s, and still look like Guinan from the 2360s.

However, Guinan's knowledge of the changed timeline in Yesterday's Enterprise was never explained. She also had an estranged history with Q that was only ever hinted at. So yeah, why not? Time Lords.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Wrong universe.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Wrong universe.

I am well aware of that.

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but I'm sure I once read somewhere that there were ideas batted about back during TNG to do a crossover with Doctor Who.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but I'm sure I once read somewhere that there were ideas batted about back during TNG to do a crossover with Doctor Who.

No, but two Doctors Who cameo in the ST novel "Ishmael".

"Doctor Who" was kinda fizzling out just as TNG was reaching its ratings peak. That's why one UK magazine changed its name, over several months, from "Doctor Who Bulletin" to "DWB" to "Dreamwatch Bulletin", and its young Who-less fans began to switch allegiance to a new SF show, even though many had little knowledge of TOS.

The character of Burlinghoff Rasmussen ("A Matter of Time") was the closest TNG got to someone time traveling in a Tardis-like vehicle. The episode was written with Robin "Mork" Williams in mind, but he was busy, so it went to Matt Frewer.

 

[F. King Daniel]

There's a good fanfic out there (which was once illegally published without the author's consent) called "The Doctor and the Enterprise", by Jean Airey. In it, the Doctor speculates that the death of the Vulcans millenia past is the key divergence point between his and Trek's versions of history.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Wrong universe.

I am well aware of that.

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but I'm sure I once read somewhere that there were ideas batted about back during TNG to do a crossover with Doctor Who.

Nope. Only in the imagination of fans.

 

[Orac]

What would a Timelord (with the ability to travel anywhere in time and space) need the Nexus for?

 

[The Wormhole]

Sorry, but I don't picture the Borg assimilating Gallifrey. Therefore, no the El-Aurians are not some sort of Time Lord equivelant.

 

[Arpy]

I doubt the writers had the Nexus in mind when they gave her super spacetime senses in "Yesterday's Enterprise". Or when they made Q afraid of her in whatever episode that was. And no the idea probably wasn't that she was a Time Lord, but that's certainly more interesting than her being just another human-looking alien of the week - another blech thing in GEN. The "El-Aurians" were far more interesting before that. Someone should do a crossover comic or novel. Maybe she specifically is unusual for an El-Aurian - like Wesley for a human.

 

[The Wormhole]

The El-Aurians were "another human-looking alien of the week" before Generations. That happened in DS9's second season, with the El-Aurian seen in the episode Rivals. This is one thing Generations kept to the canonical precedents with.

 

[SeerSGB]

Wrong universe.

I am well aware of that.

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but I'm sure I once read somewhere that there were ideas batted about back during TNG to do a crossover with Doctor Who.

Nope. Only in the imagination of fans.

Yeah...it was Enterprise that was tagged for a wished for crossover by the Who Production Team.

Trekmovie Link

"Doctor Who: The Writer’s Tale", written by Davies and Benjamin Cook, was first published in 2008, but a newly expanded version comes out on January 21st (January 15th in the UK). The new edition covers Davies entire tenure now that he has moved on from the Who-verse. Our friends at the UK SFX magazine have a preview of "20 things they learned" from the book, which includes these little tidbits:

4. Yet another [idea for the 2009 Easter Special] was a kind of Star Trek pastiche – essentially “the Doctor on board the Enterprise, puncturing all that Starfleet pomposity with this sheer Doctor-ness”.

5. Speaking of which, back in 2004, a Doctor Who/Star Trek crossover was seriously on their list of plans, until Enterprise was axed.

 

[xortex]

Guinan back in the ninteenth century was pushing it just like accepting a Janeway relative to look just like Janeway. Q's Borg killed her race. She's awefully forgiving. Though he could bring them back with the wave of his hand. Like I said elsewhere, Braga and Morre weren't stupid they knew to tie the movies into Q somehow. It all starts where it began as in Encounter at Farpoint, though tangentially. The nexus being a connection to Q realm, the continuum, which was Earth around the turn of the century, which is ironically where Guinan was stranded. So what happened there. She + it = shit. orig? Back to the Borg. Did we create them as in a swip of Battlestar Galactica and Dune? The other movies writer's just didn't have as much talent, or inner directives? Q is a tough nut to crack.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Sure, why not?

 

[Mr Silver]

I'd like to say that Guinan's abilities can be summed up by her time spent in the Nexus. But the fridge logician in me, makes me wonder why Picard never displayed any of these similar abilities. I suppose you could argue that with Guinan, her latent species abilities were super enhanced and the Nexus had no effect on Picard whatsoever.

I personally think that Guinan's abilities are unique to Guinan. Sure, she's El-Aurian but she could also be a particular gifted El-Aurian. We know that the El-Aurians have a gift for listening and being able to inspire others through conversation (they even identify themselves as "a race of listeners"), we also know that they are extremely long lived and that very few of them remain (due to the Borg attack on their homeworld).

Although we know little about the El-Aurians, neither Matzur or Soran, displayed any particulary noteworthy traits, apart from confidence trickery and scientific expertise - respectively. I think Guinan's awareness is unique to her, whatever the case though, it was planned for there to be a reveal about Guinan at one stage, prior to GEN. Obviously, this didn't come into fruition and we were given the whole Nexus scenario as the curtain call for the character (barring a brief appearance in NEM).

 

[Arpy]

The El-Aurians were "another human-looking alien of the week" before Generations. That happened in DS9's second season, with the El-Aurian seen in the episode Rivals. This is one thing Generations kept to the canonical precedents with.

Maybe I'm misremembering but "Rivals" aired in January, TNG ended in May and GEN premiered in November - all 1994. They were talking about "El-Aurians" showing up in GEN (and gave them a name) long before the movie came out, and it takes time to make one. Martus, if only by virtue of the actor who played him, still seemed like he had stuff going on up there we weren't privy to. The El-Aurians got a stay of mediocrity by the episode overall being lackluster. But when we got shiploads of silly anachronistically robed refugees, they lost whatever mystique they'd had left. Guinan's more mystical elements seemed to dwindle as the series progressed, and the big mystery of her being on ship being explained in "Time's Arrow". By the time of "Suspicions", Goldberg seemed to play her pretty mundane beyond here listening skills...maybe you're right. I think though that they put an El-Aurian on DS9 for GEN like they sprinkled the Maquis on TNG for DS9, and mentioned that Romulan tactical maneuver on VOY before NEM.

 

[Destructor]

While I think the Doctor has been to enough of the time period that is represented in Trek to rule out the possibility that they share the same fictional universe (also, the fact that the Enterprise never runs into Daleks!), it is established in Doctor Who (and Trek) that there are parallel timelines and dimensions which the Doctor occasionally crosses over into, so if any entity could conceivably do a crossover, it would be the Doctor. I think an episode like that would not only be hilarious, but it would totally make the fans' heads explode trying to sort out the universes' relation to each other.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Maybe I'm misremembering but "Rivals" aired in January, TNG ended in May and GEN premiered in November - all 1994. They were talking about "El-Aurians" showing up in GEN (and gave them a name) long before the movie came out, and it takes time to make one. Martus, if only by virtue of the actor who played him, still seemed like he had stuff going on up there we weren't privy to.

The original premise regarding Martus Mazar was that he was Guinan's wayward son. Way back when DS9 was being created, they planted a concept that one of Guinan's children was in a prison cell on DS9, opening up continuing guest roles for Whoopi Goldberg if she wanted to keep doing ST beyond TNG.

The "Rivals" script tapped into those early ideas - and was still going to feature Guinan's son, until they cast a caucasian actor and decided to drop the Guinan connection. But Martus was using his Listener powers for mischief instead of good.

I think though that they put an El-Aurian on DS9 for GEN like they sprinkled the Maquis on TNG for DS9

See above. Martus was originally an excuse to have Whoopi on DS9, but it went unused until "Rivals" became a full script.

The first time Guinan the Listener was confirmed as an El-Aurian was in a promotional video for "Generations" On TV, they scrolled character biographies at great speed and viewers were encouraged to videotape the segment and replay it at slow speed to get the details needed for a sweepstakes competition. Guinan's onscreen biography listed her as an "El-Aurian".

 

[xortex]

So how did Guinen get stuck in the nexus? Is that what destroyed the El Aurilian planet? Does it come from the Borg? I would have liked to see Q's terrible mistake that created the Borg and made him a god so to spaek assuming he was once a V'ger baby. The movie should have broght Decker back, of course.