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Could anime-style mecha be practical in space?

MarianLH

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
I was reading a website that mentioned the various reasons mecha would never work in real life--weight distribution, balance, high target profile compared to a conventional tank, and so on...and it occurred to me that maybe these problems wouldn't apply in zero-g. Yes? No?

Assuming they're practical in the first place, mecha would have some advantages over something like a Babylon 5 Starfury, such as the ability to turn around without expending fuel, like a person can. Or having hands to catch or grab onto something, feet to push off a surface with, etc.

The pilot could probably control it just using a present-day motion capture rig. The joints would have to be constructed to provide full human range of motion, and the cockpit would have to be pretty roomy.


Marian
 
I guess it could work in space but why would you do so? There's no point in adding legs to the thing since there is no ground for it to walk on. At most, I can see something like a space pod that has robotic arms attached so that it could build things in space.
 
I guess it could work in space but why would you do so? There's no point in adding legs to the thing since there is no ground for it to walk on.

And then you get the Zeong.. and nobody wants that.


I love Gundam. I watched the original raw and it's a great show. That said, human-shaped mechs are rather silly. At least there's a reason for them in Macross.
 
A person would have a hell of a time turning around in free floating microgravity. Humans on EVA are totally reliant on handholds, stationary grab points, and thrusters.

Ed White was essentially free floating on the Genini IV, he also very nearly perished in the process. White was unable to manuver using the handheld thruster, his visor fogged and his respiration and pulse went through the roof.

Fortunately e was able to pull himself back along the life support umbilical back to the spacecraft hatch.

Given this, I don't think anthropomorphic spacecraft, or "mecha" as you so fondly refer to them, would give any advantage.
 
NeoPius Said:
That said, human-shaped mechs are rather silly. At least there's a reason for them in Macross.
The mechs in Macross are just as ridiculous if not more so. Why engage in hand to hand combat with a giant when you can rip them to shreds with artillery fire? The only anime mechs that are practical at all are the ones from VOTOMS and even they are pushing it. Anime style mechs make for cool model kits and entertainment but don't work in real life.
 
NeoPius Said:
That said, human-shaped mechs are rather silly. At least there's a reason for them in Macross.
The mechs in Macross are just as ridiculous if not more so. Why engage in hand to hand combat with a giant when you can rip them to shreds with artillery fire? The only anime mechs that are practical at all are the ones from VOTOMS and even they are pushing it. Anime style mechs make for cool model kits and entertainment but don't work in real life.

Of course they're ridiculous in Macross--I just said there's a *reason*. Not a very good one. :)

While VOTOMS mechs may be more justified, the show really has no excuse for existing. It's pretty bad.
 
Of course they're ridiculous in Macross--I just said there's a *reason*. Not a very good one. :)

Well, I still have a fond memory of the Robotech episode where they infiltrated a Zentraedi starship by dressing up their fighter mecha in a Zentraedi uniform. That was definitely not something you see every day. :lol:
 
Neopius wrote:
While VOTOMS mechs may be more justified, the show really has no excuse for existing. It's pretty bad.
I beg to differ VOTOMS is one of the greatest mech anime ever made.
 
Assuming they're practical in the first place, mecha would have some advantages over something like a Babylon 5 Starfury, such as the ability to turn around without expending fuel, like a person can.


How would they turn around with out using fuel?
 
A person would have a hell of a time turning around in free floating microgravity.
Only if he's wearing a full-pressure suit, which--if the suit is mechanical--won't be a problem. Gymnasts and cats learn how to perform pivot turns in mid air without the use of a handhold; twist your body against your own hips and come around to the other side. Astronauts would be able to do the same... IF they weren't wearing a two hundred pound man-shaped tractor tire everywhere they went.

IIRC, the whole point of "mobile suits" in Gundam fame actually started out as a development from construction pods; Zeon scientists figured out that instead of being dead weight, pilots could use the limbs of the pods to perform turning maneuvers without having to waste propellant. This lead to the development of mobile suits, since they didn't have the patience to do a study and figure out what kind of limb configuration would be optimal in space, nor did they have the time to figure out how to make that configuration work. They simply studied the way their OWN astronauts moved in space and programmed their mobile suits to do the same.

Gundam SEED kind of expanded on this idea in that programming a mobile suit to move and balance in a human-like way is incredibly complicated, but once you've done it, they're incredibly maneuverable.
 
While body-twisting may be an instinctually simple and efficient way to effect a turn, it doesn't make sense to augment this with a mecha body. The process of flaying mechanical arms around for this purpose is horrendously inefficient, not to mention that it takes those arms away from the actual work they are supposed to be doing.

Much better to rig the inside of your spherical battlepod with a VR harness that captures your body twist and then translates it into rotation, by using gyroscopes or rockets. The former alternative doesn't use propellant and uses less fuel than if the gyroscope were replaced by flaying arms. The latter alternative does use propellant/fuel, but this may well be worth it: the whole suit might exist for the purpose of allowing the occupant to rapidly point his eyes or weapons in a certain direction.

Although one does wonder why there should exist the need to pivot rapidly. Why not have full 4pi coverage of the surrounding battlespace, all at once? If you're going to strap heavy gear onto your fragile body anyway, just install four guns rather than one. What you lose in maneuverability, you gain in your ability to negate the advantage of your opponent's maneuverability.

Really, the most valid-sounding reason for a mecha in space would be if a transition needed to be made from free floating to fighting under gravity in confined spaces. Which supposedly would mean boarding action against ships equipped with artificial gravity of some sort, or perhaps a precision drop from orbit onto a cramped urban planetary battlefield. But it seems very unlikely that there would be an advantage to having a mecha-like body while in transit from your own ship to the target you wish to board - a much larger and more powerful vehicle would be far preferable if the aim were to match velocities with the enemy and pierce his defenses. Some sort of an APC should deliver you (and probably a hundred of your fellow troopers) to the target, after which piercing action would follow, and then you could continue fighting either "shirtsleeves" or then slightly mecha-augmented but without the insane burden of superfluous rocket engines, grapplers, hull cutters and vacuum-only weapons.

Okay, I can see the benefit of "spreading out" your space APC eggbasket a bit. Perhaps it would make sense for individual soldiers to have their own vehicles, for stealth or saturation purposes. But it still wouldn't make much sense to compromise those vehicles by limiting them to mecha dimensions and functionalities, nor to compromise the endpoint fighting unit by forcing it to retain the space travel and hull piercing /atmospheric entry functionalities.

Timo Saloniemi
 
...Only if he's wearing a full-pressure suit, which--if the suit is mechanical--won't be a problem. Gymnasts and cats learn how to perform pivot turns in mid air without the use of a handhold; twist your body against your own hips and come around to the other side. Astronauts would be able to do the same... IF they weren't wearing a two hundred pound man-shaped tractor tire everywhere they went.

Well, good luck with that mechanical suit thing. I'll be the guy over in the corner in the man-shaped baloon that's grabbing the handhold... and breathing. :)

If weight wasn't a problem, I suspect we'd already have NEWT suit variants
( http://www.sub-find.com/newt_suit.htm ) or the like already on orbit... but you have to lift more weight, allocate more storage room for the bulk of the suit, design larger airlocks, etc, etc, etc.

Given the NEWT and it's immediate predecessor, the JIM suit have been around since the Apollo era, I'm nearly certain that NASA has looked at them, and moved on to more viable solutions.
 
While body-twisting may be an instinctually simple and efficient way to effect a turn, it doesn't make sense to augment this with a mecha body. The process of flaying mechanical arms around for this purpose is horrendously inefficient, not to mention that it takes those arms away from the actual work they are supposed to be doing.
In a mobile suit, the "actual work they're supposed to be doing" is really just holding onto, aiming and shooting artillery-sized weapons at warships and other mobile suits. Really, using the arms and legs for maneuvering takes away from the mobile suit about as much as it does in an actual human doing the same thing; a mobile suit really only needs to have one arm free, and even then only when it is actually in the act of shooting at someone (or, alternatively, deflecting incoming fire with a large handheld shield).

Although one does wonder why there should exist the need to pivot rapidly.
Same as the need for fighter aircraft to turn rapidly, especially in extremely close combat, which is exactly what mobile suits were intended for. As a little background, the entire premise of mobile suits in the first place had to do with Minovsky particles (or N-jammers if you're in SEED) that basically neutralized radio waves except at very short ranges. Fighters and warships that depended on BVR weaponry would suddenly find their radars graying out, and next thing they know they're surrounded by heavily armed mobile suits that can turn on a dime without having to use thrusters or cancel acceleration. Plus, there's the fact that a mobile suit that runs out of ammunition can pull out a giant battleaxe and literally hack an enemy warship to pieces.

On the other hand,
Why not have full 4pi coverage of the surrounding battlespace, all at once?
The Zeons tried that with Mobile Armors. These were basically one- or two-manned battleships using various advanced control systems, including telepathic interfaces and powerful AIs. The most exlpicit examples would be the Nue Ziel and Big Zam, both of which were a) fucking huge and b) bristling with energy weapons, projectile weapons and--in the case of Nue Ziel--close-quarter melee weapons so the mobile armor could double as a kind of battleship-class wrecking ball.

The problem with mobile armors turned out to be their lack of agility. No matter how many thrusters you pack onto the thing, it will never has as much stamina or quickness as a mobile suit, and is--like a warship--vulnerable to close range attack.

In other words, if mobile suit is a P51 Mustang, mobile armors are B-17s. The heavy bomber may be bristling with machineguns and bombs (and, in a more modern battlefield, air to air missiles) but its lack of maneuverability means it will still be cut to pieces when smaller fighters get close enough.

Really, the most valid-sounding reason for a mecha in space would be if a transition needed to be made from free floating to fighting under gravity in confined spaces.
Which, again, was one of the reason mobile suits were developed, for close-quarter combat against capital ships and fighters. Moreover, there was the need for mobile suits to operate in the interiors of space colonies, in which their next closest rival were Earth Federation battle tanks, helicopters, mortars and infantry. Mostly thanks to the arms and legs, mobile suits could operate in pretty much any environment, which really came in handy when it came time to invade Earth and the Zeon found themselves outnumbered thousands to one.

Okay, I can see the benefit of "spreading out" your space APC eggbasket a bit. Perhaps it would make sense for individual soldiers to have their own vehicles, for stealth or saturation purposes. But it still wouldn't make much sense to compromise those vehicles by limiting them to mecha dimensions and functionalities
"Limiting" them? In the original Gundam series the average mobile suit was the size of an office building. The Zaku-II carried a machinegun with a caliber of 120mm just for starters. Even that was considered relatively primitive compared to the directed energy weapons of the actual Gundam, not to mention the mobile suit designs that came after.
 
I liked Gundam MS 08. They used the gundam exclusively in Jungle combat, it seemed like a good platform for that.
 
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