Commodore Wesley confuses me

[Sadara]

In the Ultimate Computer, he knew the M5 was being tested in its abilities to run a starship and yet when things go wrong he assumes Kirk is just having a tantrum instead of considering the possibility that the M5 malfunctioned. Not exactly command material in my opinion.

 

[Relayer1]

TOS is full of one dimensional characters behaving irrationally for plot purposes.

In fact most things are full of one dimensional characters behaving irrationally for plot purposes...

 

[Redfern]

TOS is full of one dimensional characters behaving irrationally for plot purposes.

In fact most things are full of one dimensional characters behaving irrationally for plot purposes...

I guess that would make Wesley a "plot point".

Thank you; I'll be here all week. Try the veal.

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[C.E. Evans]

Kirk was so disliked by his peers that Wesley was more willing to believe Kirk had finally went off the deep end than that the M-5 was malfunctioning.


But if I recall correctly, it should have been impossible for Kirk to lose total control of the Enterprise to the M-5 (even in the event of a malfunction), but the computer overrode manual override.

 

[Sadara]

Kirk was so disliked by his peers that Wesley was more willing to believe Kirk had finally went off the deep end than that the M-5 was malfunctioning.


But if I recall correctly, it should have been impossible for Kirk to lose total control of the Enterprise to the M-5 (even in the event of a malfunction), but the computer overrode manual override.

I guess I overlooked it, but I didn't really sense that Kirk's peers disliked him that much. Even so, assuming someone we don't like went off the deep end just because that's what we're hoping for isn't exactly rational.

 

[BillJ]

Maybe Wesley had been working closely with Daystrom and M-5 and thought it impossible that M-5 malfunctioned? We really aren't privy to what was going on before Kirk arrived and discussions aboard the Lexington once things went south.

 

[T'Girl]

Wesley knew Kirk had that big ass circuit breaker mounted on the side of his Captain's chair, surely he would have threw it if the M5 started shooting on it's own.

 

[GSchnitzer]

In the Ultimate Computer, he knew the M5 was being tested in its abilities to run a starship and yet when things go wrong he assumes Kirk is just having a tantrum instead of considering the possibility that the M5 malfunctioned. Not exactly command material in my opinion.

"The Enterprise refuses to answer and is continuing attack. I still have an effective battle force and believe the only way to stop the Enterprise is to destroy her. Request permission to proceed. Wesley, commanding attack force, out."

I think that whether Kirk had gone mad, or M-5 was malfunctioning, or the Enterprise was suddenly comandeered by magic evil spirts, Wesly's command actions probably needed to be the same no matter what the cause was: with the Enterprise failing to respond and with it blasting the hell out of the four starships, "the only way to stop the Enterprise was to destroy her"--whatever the actual cause had been.

 

[BillJ]

It does seem weird that Wesley wouldn't recognize the actions of M-5 during battle. Did he really think that Kirk could slice up four starships that quickly and effectively?

 

[C.E. Evans]

Kirk was so disliked by his peers that Wesley was more willing to believe Kirk had finally went off the deep end than that the M-5 was malfunctioning.


But if I recall correctly, it should have been impossible for Kirk to lose total control of the Enterprise to the M-5 (even in the event of a malfunction), but the computer overrode manual override.

I guess I overlooked it, but I didn't really sense that Kirk's peers disliked him that much. Even so, assuming someone we don't like went off the deep end just because that's what we're hoping for isn't exactly rational.

The first part of my comment was a joke (note the smiley).

The second part is what I really think what happened. As far as Wesley knew, the M-5 had a shut-off switch that Kirk could flip if it ever malfunctioned. Wesley didn't know that the M-5 could override its shut-off switch. Heck, Kirk and the gang didn't know it could do that.

 

[Grant]

Honestly i always thought the same thing. Why couldn't they have given him one measley line to make him seem more 'with-it.'


"Jim, if M-5 is out of control you have to disable it quick or we'll be forced to destroy the enterprise!"

 

[Sadara]

Kirk was so disliked by his peers that Wesley was more willing to believe Kirk had finally went off the deep end than that the M-5 was malfunctioning.


But if I recall correctly, it should have been impossible for Kirk to lose total control of the Enterprise to the M-5 (even in the event of a malfunction), but the computer overrode manual override.

I guess I overlooked it, but I didn't really sense that Kirk's peers disliked him that much. Even so, assuming someone we don't like went off the deep end just because that's what we're hoping for isn't exactly rational.

The first part of my comment was a joke (note the smiley).

The second part is what I really think what happened. As far as Wesley knew, the M-5 had a shut-off switch that Kirk could flip if it ever malfunctioned. Wesley didn't know that the M-5 could override its shut-off switch. Heck, Kirk and the gang didn't know it could do that.

Sure, no one knew that, but it still doesn't make sense to assume that Kirk went nuts rather than the M5. Wesley has known Kirk for years and should know that sort of behavior isn't part of Kirk's character. The M5, sure it did great in simulated tests, but it was still the more unknown variable. Assuming Kirk just freaked out is still more than a stretch.

 

[Sadara]

In the Ultimate Computer, he knew the M5 was being tested in its abilities to run a starship and yet when things go wrong he assumes Kirk is just having a tantrum instead of considering the possibility that the M5 malfunctioned. Not exactly command material in my opinion.

"The Enterprise refuses to answer and is continuing attack. I still have an effective battle force and believe the only way to stop the Enterprise is to destroy her. Request permission to proceed. Wesley, commanding attack force, out."

I think that whether Kirk had gone mad, or M-5 was malfunctioning, or the Enterprise was suddenly comandeered by magic evil spirts, Wesly's command actions probably needed to be the same no matter what the cause was: with the Enterprise failing to respond and with it blasting the hell out of the four starships, "the only way to stop the Enterprise was to destroy her"--whatever the actual cause had been.

I agree that the course of action would likely have remained the same. I'm just questioning Wesley's reasoning as to the cause. He seemed to have more faith in that M5 machine than Kirk apparently.

 

[Sadara]

Honestly i always thought the same thing. Why couldn't they have given him one measley line to make him seem more 'with-it.'


"Jim, if M-5 is out of control you have to disable it quick or we'll be forced to destroy the enterprise!"

^This.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I guess I overlooked it, but I didn't really sense that Kirk's peers disliked him that much. Even so, assuming someone we don't like went off the deep end just because that's what we're hoping for isn't exactly rational.

The first part of my comment was a joke (note the smiley).

The second part is what I really think what happened. As far as Wesley knew, the M-5 had a shut-off switch that Kirk could flip if it ever malfunctioned. Wesley didn't know that the M-5 could override its shut-off switch. Heck, Kirk and the gang didn't know it could do that.

Sure, no one knew that, but it still doesn't make sense to assume that Kirk went nuts rather than the M5.

Think about it, though. As far as Wesley knew, the M-5 had a shut-off switch in the event of a malfunction, and as such, there was no way that the Enterprise would be attacking other Federation starships unless Kirk was authorizing the M-5 to do so. Nobody (other than perhaps Daystrom) knew that the M-5 could arrange things so that Kirk couldn't turn it off.

Wesley has known Kirk for years and should know that sort of behavior isn't part of Kirk's character.

Which may have been the only thing that prevented the Enterprise from being blown to bits once the M-5 deactivated itself.

The M5, sure it did great in simulated tests, but it was still the more unknown variable. Assuming Kirk just freaked out is still more than a stretch.

Not necessarily, because people have snapped before with powerful weapons at their disposal.

 

[Robert Comsol]

Funny, when I saw the thread title I had something else in mind.

But Wesley's "Jim, what are you doing?" is indeed rather odd, since Kirk says at the end of the episode that he knew Robert Wesley.

So it's safe to assume that this is mutual and Bob Wesley should know that Kirk wasn't deliberately killing hundreds of fellow Starfleet crew members just because Wesley upsetted him by calling him "Captain Dunsel" (add to this he would have focused his revenge on the Lexington).

Where the Wesley character confused me, too, was that he was apparently eager to eliminate the profession of starship captain / commander. Probably he wouldn't like to serve under the command of a computer, either and one may wonder how an M-5 would have resolved the situation in the TAS episode where the life of Wesley and his daughter were threatened.

Bob

 

[C.E. Evans]

Funny, when I saw the thread title I had something else in mind.

But Wesley's "Jim, what are you doing?" is indeed rather odd, since Kirk says at the end of the episode that he knew Robert Wesley.

So it's safe to assume that this is mutual and Bob Wesley should know that Kirk wasn't deliberately killing hundreds of fellow Starfleet crew members just because Wesley upsetted him by calling him "Captain Dunsel" (add to this he would have focused his revenge on the Lexington).

I actually don't think it's safe to assume that at all.

The only thing that Wesley really has to go on is that the Enterprise is attacking other Federation ships with weapons at full power. Wesley didn't know that the M-5 could malfunction so badly that Kirk could lose total control of his ship. In fairly short order, though, it became a moot point because the Enterprise had to be stopped regardless who was in control of her.

 

[iguana_tonante]

In line with C.E. Evans' comment and strictly playing the devil's advocate here, but still...

Did he really think that Kirk could slice up four starships that quickly and effectively?

Well, he is James Tiberius Kirk, tactical genius and bad-ass captain of the Enterprise. He's a brilliant commander, an experienced soldier, and an unconventional tactician. So maybe he could slice up four starships that quickly and effectively.

Wesley has known Kirk for years and should know that sort of behavior isn't part of Kirk's character.

Or maybe it is. Wesley has known Kirk for years, we have only see him for, what? 50 hours? And that's being generous with screen time. So maybe Wesley knows something that we don't know.

He seemed to have more faith in that M5 machine than Kirk apparently.

Which maybe tells us more about Kirk that it does about Wesley.

But Wesley's "Jim, what are you doing?" is indeed rather odd, since Kirk says at the end of the episode that he knew Robert Wesley.

So it's safe to assume that this is mutual and Bob Wesley should know that Kirk wasn't deliberately killing hundreds of fellow Starfleet crew members just because Wesley upsetted him by calling him "Captain Dunsel" (add to this he would have focused his revenge on the Lexington).

Again, same reasoning here. Maybe Kirk, a brilliant but unconventional mind, is under strict surveillance from Starfleet, which is just waiting him to snap, but can't do without his experience and genius. Think about it: did anybody in Starfleet raise an eyebrow when they believed Kirk crippled Gorkon's ship and sent people to assassinate him?

 

[BillJ]

Well, he is James Tiberius Kirk, tactical genius and bad-ass captain of the Enterprise. He's a brilliant commander, an experienced soldier, and an unconventional tactician. So maybe he could slice up four starships that quickly and effectively.

Under ordinary circumstances I'd agree. But he only had twenty crewmen aboard, apparently not enough to run a ship effectively.

KIRK: Twenty? I can't run a starship with twenty crew.

 

[Maurice]

It's just bad writing.

This episode is full of it. For instance anything as complicated as a starship is going to be internally vulnerable to sabotage by its chief engineer. And the idea that any system could bypass manual override means it ain't actually a manual override.