Christianity and Star Trek

[Chuckling]

In fear and trembling I go where Angels fear to tread...

I've been asked to write an article about whether or not Christians (of any denomination) can or should be Trekkies/Trekkers.

As a long time watcher and user of the BBS, I'd be interested in what everyone else's thoughts are on the subject.

I know it's been talked about a lot in the past so forgive my raising it again.

How about cosplay and conventions?

Thanks for your tolerance. MODS, feel free to delete this thread if it gets crazy.

Chuckling

 

[The Wormhole]

Nothing wrong with Christians liking Star Trek. One time I was at a Catholic church and the priest gave a sermon on how much he liked Trek, even showed off his toy tricorder.

 

[scottydog]

I'm not sure why Christianity and Star Trek wouldn't go together. Our heroes display good old-fashioned Christian values almost all the time. And to anyone who thinks Trek mocks religious faith in any way, consider how tastefully, delicately, and intelligently the clash between religion and science is treated in Deep Space 9.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Christians can be Trekkies, why not?

The issue of whether the Federation is officially atheist is another matter. They've danced around the issue so much that I don't think it's possible to say.

BTW, I'd like the Federation to be atheist, but more because I want to see what story possibilities that leads to than because I think "the future will be athiest." Contrasting Sisko's role as a Bajoran religious figure with his responisiblities as a military officer in an atheistic system would have been interesting certainly...

 

[sbk1234]

Where in Christian theology does it say that people should not use their imaginations, or be exposed to different ideas?

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Nowhere. It's just some people have no sense of fun...

 

[Chuckling]

One of the issues raised is where is the line between fandom and obsession?

How far is too far?

And even then, is "obsession" necessarily wrong?

Chuckling

 

[Kegek]

^
Depends on the manifestation of obsession, doesn't it? Obsession's only really problematic if it leads to people, oh, I don't know, stalking Star Trek stars.

Watching the episodes over and over again in one's basement while mouthing the words out, however, is harmless enough.

To return to the topic at hand, though, no discussion of this issue is complete without "Bread and Circuses", an episode which ends with the revelation that a planet with 20th century technology - but ruled by imperial Rome - has a minority of persecuted Christians. This causes some generally positive observations on Christianity from the crew (even the logical alien, who describes it as 'a philosophy of peace and total brotherhood'), but also the idea that Christ was actually present on this planet... an avenue perhaps wisely left unexplored.

Gene Roddenberry's atheism is well documented, and the theme of Kirk destroying false gods in TOS - while arguably similar to prophets doing the same in the Old Testament - was not meant to exclude the Abrahamic faiths. The culmination of that idea was in the aborted film idea he had, 'The God Thing', where Kirk, after vanquishing Vaal and Landru and a dozen other fictive gods who are really computers, would go after the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who has a similar mechanical origin.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Depends on your definition of Christianity.

If you are talking about the 30 odd percent of people who follow some form of the Christian Faith, then why not?

If you are talking about fundamentalists, the sort who go around protesting against Harry Potter, banning abortion and firebombing abortion clinics, playing Marilyn Manson records backwards just in case, those who think the planet is only 10000 years old, who think that the bible is a literal message from God rather than a moral guidebook, the 0.0005% that have the loudest voices and disproportionate influence. Then probably not.

After all, there is no TV in the bible, and that is that.

 

[Pindar]

Chuckling said:
One of the issues raised is where is the line between fandom and obsession?

How far is too far?

And even then, is "obsession" necessarily wrong?

Chuckling

What does that have to do with your original topic?

 

[Chuckling]

There was a magazine a long time ago that asked its Christian readership to say whether fantasy or sci-fi was OK or not (in response to some fundamentalist letters to the editor).

The responses to the survey ranged from those who said anything was acceptable to those who said the parables of Christ were events that actually occured because otherwise Christ would have been lying.

The question of fandom or obsession lies in there. We're trying to look at the pros and cons of fandom and people's responses to it both for and against.

I thought you guys would have some interesting thoughts.

Let me ask something else as well.

With Trek a continuing franchise now, what part should religious belief play in its future now there are other people at the helm?

Chuckling

 

[Mark de Vries]

Religious beliefs should play the part that the authors see fit. I'd be delighted to see a tasteful depiction of Christianity in future Trek, but I won't be avoiding it if it's not in there, or if it dares to ask questions about religion.

As a practising Catholic, I don't see anything wrong with enjoying Star Trek, even if it should have elements that go against what I believe to be right.

I agree with earlier posters that DS9 did a wonderful job of portraying religion. I recall a quote by Major Kira about it: "If you don't have faith, you can't explain it. But if you do, you don't need to."

 

[Kegek]

Chuckling said:
With Trek a continuing franchise now, what part should religious belief play in its future now there are other people at the helm?

Whatever role Abrams and his collaborators are comfortable with. I know, a fairly generic answer, but I think they're working under enough constraints as it is without having a religious agenda foisted upon them. I suspect they'll simply avoid the issue as the show has done so often in the past.

 

[Gojirob]

I prefer to think of the UFP's stance as being one of neutrality towards all faiths, with no bias towards any one. Problem is, in practice, this can translate out from tolerance to just tolerated ('Those who do believe find the one more than adequate' 'V'gr's in for a hell of a disappointment') to outright disdain and contempt ('Vulcan mumbo-jumbo' TNG's 'Who Watches The Watchers?'). Starfleet/UFP mean well, but rational individuals who have seen the history of sectarian violence on Earth and elsewhere likely wince whenever someone seems too fervent.

I've tried to use this theme in some of my fic. I wrote a Captain Pike story wherein the 'fable' of Hell comes back at him in his nightmares. I wrote a short in which the Enterprise returns to 892-IV/Terra Roma, there to rescue two rebel leaders from summary execution. There they learn that Uhura slightly mistranslated Roman broadcasts about the Children Of The Son. It was not of a figure who was on-planet, or who had been and gone, but of someone yet to come. The rebel leaders are of course, Yossef and his young, pregnant wife, Miryam. My magnum opus concerns, among other things, a messianic figure ( a relative of one of the TOS 7) who is himself a Christian, and wonders if his status is blasphemous.

There is no reason either side should go after the other, but I doubt that certain people of either camp will ever see the commonalities before that which offends them.

 

[starburst]

obsession is too far when you believe in something so much that you believe it to be true, no matter what anyone says.
Obviously if you believe Trek is true your just a lil closer to the looney bin than if your an obsessed Christian (as most people know Trek is fictitous but you cant really prove religion either way)

 

[3D Master]

Kegek said:
^
Depends on the manifestation of obsession, doesn't it? Obsession's only really problematic if it leads to people, oh, I don't know, stalking Star Trek stars.

Watching the episodes over and over again in one's basement while mouthing the words out, however, is harmless enough.

To return to the topic at hand, though, no discussion of this issue is complete without "Bread and Circuses", an episode which ends with the revelation that a planet with 20th century technology - but ruled by imperial Rome - has a minority of persecuted Christians. This causes some generally positive observations on Christianity from the crew (even the logical alien, who describes it as 'a philosophy of peace and total brotherhood'), but also the idea that Christ was actually present on this planet... an avenue perhaps wisely left unexplored.

I hate that episode for that final scene.

The complete derision that the crew talk about woshipping the sun, and then suddenly are so nice over the "progression" that they really worship "the son" annoys the hell out of me.

Seriously, if there is something to worship, it's the sun - the source of the power that allows life to exist, and holding enough of it, to snuff that life out in an instant if it wanted to. Not some guy whether he was real or not, supposedly being the son of some invisible god. Especially considering how religions based on the later has been slaughtering, butchering, enslaving, and burning people alive ever since they came to power.

It makes worshipers of the sun, or polytheistic gods look sweet and enlightened in comparison.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

3D Master said:
I hate that episode for that final scene.

The complete derision that the crew talk about woshipping the sun, and then suddenly are so nice over the "progression" that they really worship "the son" annoys the hell out of me.

As do I, but had Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek: The God Thing been produced as the first film instead of ST:TMP the tragic events taking place on Planet 892-IV could have been put down to interference by the same malfunctioning alien automaton that had visited Earth over two thousand years earlier.

TGT

 

[Kegek]

^
True. But even not considering his draft for a moment... the same episode implies that the planet had Julius Caesar and Augustus, among other specific Roman personages. Either Christ was just another non-divine person randomly created by this cosmic coincidence, he's the projection of some machine... or he's really god manifesting himself somewhere else. Any of these answers are bound to offend somebody.

3D Master said:
Seriously, if there is something to worship, it's the sun - the source of the power that allows life to exist, and holding enough of it, to snuff that life out in an instant if it wanted to. Not some guy whether he was real or not, supposedly being the son of some invisible god. Especially considering how religions based on the later has been slaughtering, butchering, enslaving, and burning people alive ever since they came to power. It makes worshipers of the sun, or polytheistic gods look sweet and enlightened in comparison.

Now, now. Constantine the Great was slaughtering his enemies in the name of Sol Invictus before he made the fateful switch.

History's memory can be pretty selective, but generally the problem is ideals, period. You name it, if something's abstracted as really important, folks will die and kill for it.

 

[Garth Rockett]

Well, obsession with anything can be potentially problematic for a Christian, whether you're talking Star Trek or professional sports or how well manicured your lawn is. There's nothing peculiar to Trek that causes a problem in that area.

What is peculiar to Trek that could cause some Christians discomfort is the underlying secular humanist worldview that permeates most, if not all, of Trek. That worldview does come into conflict with the Christian worldview at several points, and that may cause problems for the Christian, but I think it comes down to the individual Christian's evaluation of the material. I'm a Christian and I'm sometimes put off by certain ideals presented in Trek (usually found in TMP or early TNG) but I find much more about it I enjoy and I watch it on a frequent basis, since I recognize that not every piece of entertainment will conform to my worldview and I get more enjoyment out of Trek than unenjoyment by far. And certainly, there are multiple themes that recur in Trek that are consistent with the Christian worldview, so on the balance I personally think it's fine. But every Christian is free to make their own determination, IMO.

 

[RyanKCR]

Garth Rockett said:
Well, obsession with anything can be potentially problematic for a Christian, whether you're talking Star Trek or professional sports or how well manicured your lawn is. There's nothing peculiar to Trek that causes a problem in that area.

What is peculiar to Trek that could cause some Christians discomfort is the underlying secular humanist worldview that permeates most, if not all, of Trek. That worldview does come into conflict with the Christian worldview at several points, and that may cause problems for the Christian, but I think it comes down to the individual Christian's evaluation of the material. I'm a Christian and I'm sometimes put off by certain ideals presented in Trek (usually found in TMP or early TNG) but I find much more about it I enjoy and I watch it on a frequent basis, since I recognize that not every piece of entertainment will conform to my worldview and I get more enjoyment out of Trek than unenjoyment by far. And certainly, there are multiple themes that recur in Trek that are consistent with the Christian worldview, so on the balance I personally think it's fine. But every Christian is free to make their own determination, IMO.

What's funny for me is that as I look at TMP today (I first loved it as a child and did not really put any religious significance to it) and I can see all kinds of Christian imagery in it. While losely trying to speak out agains religion it really strongly supported it especially a lot of Christian ideas.