Chakotay as the Noble Savage

[Zameaze]

I liked the idea of a Native American crew member, but the writers botched Chakotay badly, I thought.

We are way in the future and Chakotay’s father, and the traditions he passed down, were strictly “old west Indian”. OK, writers, I like to try to work with you, but if Chakotay is a descendant of early Native Americans, then why is he from a tribe called the Anurabi, which never existed? By the way, 'Chakotay' doesn’t mean anything in any Native American language either. If the Anurabi is a tribe that began in our future, why does it have only ancient traditions? And could they do no better than to make the man a stereotype? But not even a good stereotype--they even botched that. His background is sterotypically plains Indian, but he and his father hunt in the rain forest. My head hurts.

I wanted to like the character, but the writers wouldn’t let me. With all the back story they did on him, you'd think that they could have given us something to work with.

OK, I’ll fold my tent for now, and with my braves, shaman, and spirit guide, walk silently from the sweat lodge to the pow wow, where I’ll beat the war drums or smoke the peace pipe, whatever the white-eyes will allow.

 

[JustKate]

See, they didn't really give him a "back story." They gave him "hints of a back story," hints that they jettisoned whenever they felt the need. It was ridiculous, of course.

I understand that it was Beltran himself who suggested a heritage as an Mexico-area Indian, seeing as that would mesh better with his own ethnic background (his parents are from Mexico, after all)...but they never did much with that either.

What they ended up with was just a big ol' mess that satisfied...well, probably nobody, really.

 

[exodus]

I still liked Chakotay despite his "Tribe Hollywood" origin. There was more to every character( and people in general) besides their culture. If they couldn't get his culture right, then they should have focused more on his conflicting nature. He was a private peaceful man that led a terrorist cell. That's gotta be worth a few eps. right there. They also failed to play up the friction between him & Tuvok. That's worth a few more stories, especially when you factor in that Janeway's appointed First Officer has issues not only with her long time close friend but the ships head of security. I would have loved to have known how Janeway herself viewed that.

 

[Red Ranger]

In general, Chakotay was a stereotype, but I still like him. How can you not be cool with a big ole tattoo on your face?

It's too bad the writers didn't follow Robert Beltran's suggestion and make him a descendant of a South American native tribe, something that's rarely depicted on TV or movies.

 

[teya]

By the way, 'Chakotay' doesn’t mean anything in any Native American language either.

Totally coincidental, but Chac is the Mayan thunder god.

And Beltran, after being cast (and long after the character was named) suggested the Maya as Chakotay's tribe of origin. It would have been a great idea for the writers to follow.

They didn't.

As to whether or not he's a decent character in spite of his heritage or lack thereof...

Well, he's okay.

Nothing special.

Certainly nothing Indian.

He's perfectly identifiable as an Indian to white people--he's noble and proud and ecological and spiritual and there's flute music whenever he's on screen.

However, lacking drums and especially lacking a tribe makes him unrecognizable as an Indian to Indians, since our collective identity is as or more important than our individual identity.

Unfortunate. They could have had much to work with. Too bad they didn't.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I thought he was too nice. The lad was a convivial and genial terrorist leader... The Maquis way apparently is to beat people up for stealing soup. i do wonder if he was exactly the same on his own ship, or if he did 'rule" via the Maquis way with beatings and threats to keep the psychos in line... I think the writers forgot that the marquis were just framers who were run off their land, but then these guys mostly seemed to be insurgents looking for a tussle and a cause rather than hard done by DMZ natives oppressed by the man.

I think that the tribes as we know them would have been jumbled a little when the preservers started taking samples to seed across the universe... Did those other buggers take any Native Americans in that Enterprise Episode "Northstar" where they found cowboys in space?

Then considering the "gods" the Indians worshipped where all probably aliens like Apollo or Q to something more benign with varying powers, then they ere probably fucked over a little kneeling to higher powers that had quantitative needs from "worship" to "mining rights" and "slave labour" would have again more jumbled the the shapes of their societies.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

I think a more savage Chakotay would have been interesting. Not mindlessly so, but he should have had more of a "take no prisoners" type attitude to play off against the Fleeters.

Instead, we more often found Chakotay wanting to play it safe when Janeway wanted to take risks...

 

[Guy Gardener]

Which might be why the Maquis were winning at almost every turn.

 

[exodus]

In general, Chakotay was a stereotype, but I still like him. How can you not be cool with a big ole tattoo on your face?

Mike Tyson?

 

[TedShatner10]

Funny, I thought the depiction of Chuckles' Native American heritage was unintentionally patronizing and had borderline racist undertones, as highlighted by this YouTube review of "Tattoo". It was as if Michale Pillar and Jeri Taylor were locked in a room for days on end listening to New Age music on a loop.

 

[exodus]

Funny, I thought the depiction of Chuckles' Native American heritage was unintentionally patronizing and had borderline racist undertones, as highlighted by this YouTube review of "Tattoo". It was as if Michale Pillar and Jeri Taylor were locked in a room for days on end listening to New Age music on a loop.

I'm always amused at how sfdebris harps on Neelix for being annoying when he is too.

 

[freak]

Well, I loved Chakotay's character...flaws and all. I do agree, however, that he should have been more of a savage-like character. That would have been very interesting in the storyline, me thinks. I also wouldn't have minded seeing the "angry warrior" in him at times either. But I blame the writers for Chakotay's flaws. It is our flaws that make us what we are though.

 

[exodus]

People, "savage" Native American is also a slur.

 

[Lynx]

I liked the idea of a Native American crew member, but the writers botched Chakotay badly, I thought.

We are way in the future and Chakotay’s father, and the traditions he passed down, were strictly “old west Indian”. OK, writers, I like to try to work with you, but if Chakotay is a descendant of early Native Americans, then why is he from a tribe called the Anurabi, which never existed? By the way, 'Chakotay' doesn’t mean anything in any Native American language either. If the Anurabi is a tribe that began in our future, why does it have only ancient traditions? And could they do no better than to make the man a stereotype? But not even a good stereotype--they even botched that. His background is sterotypically plains Indian, but he and his father hunt in the rain forest. My head hurts.

I wanted to like the character, but the writers wouldn’t let me. With all the back story they did on him, you'd think that they could have given us something to work with.

OK, I’ll fold my tent for now, and with my braves, shaman, and spirit guide, walk silently from the sweat lodge to the pow wow, where I’ll beat the war drums or smoke the peace pipe, whatever the white-eyes will allow.

You do have some good points here.

I like Chakotay as a character. Definitely one of my favorite Star Trek characters.

I like the idea of having an Indian (or Native American) as a main character, I mean we have had Frenchmen, Scotsmen, Russians, Africans, Koreans and Japanese as main characters besides white Americans and black Americans, not to mention the different "alien" characters as well.

Parts of Chakotay's background story are also interesting, the conflict with his father when he wanted to join Starfleet, why he left Starfleet to become a Maquis and so on.

Unfortunately, they did screw up a lot of things. They could at least have given him a proper tribe. Beltran's ideas of making Chakotay a Mayan was great. Why didn't they listen to him. But they never listened to his suggestions so I understand that he got frustrated in the long run.

And the "sky spirits" thing was downright insulting to the Indians.

By the way, is there anyone who knows if the language Kolopak and the others were speaking in "Tattoo" is a real Indian language or only some "Hollywood language"?

 

[Zameaze]

By the way, is there anyone who knows if the language Kolopak and the others were speaking in "Tattoo" is a real Indian language or only some "Hollywood language"?

The language they spoke was, as you expected, pure Hollywoodese. Come on now, what self-respecting Indian language would have a word like 'Chamoozie' in it?

 

[exodus]

By the way, is there anyone who knows if the language Kolopak and the others were speaking in "Tattoo" is a real Indian language or only some "Hollywood language"?

The language they spoke was, as you expected, pure Hollywoodese. Come on now, what self-respecting Indian language would have a word like 'Chamoozie' in it?

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

By the way, is there anyone who knows if the language Kolopak and the others were speaking in "Tattoo" is a real Indian language or only some "Hollywood language"?

The language they spoke was, as you expected, pure Hollywoodese. Come on now, what self-respecting Indian language would have a word like 'Chamoozie' in it?

Sounds like something Billy Mays would loudly pitch in a commercial.

 

[Zameaze]

By the way, is there anyone who knows if the language Kolopak and the others were speaking in "Tattoo" is a real Indian language or only some "Hollywood language"?

The language they spoke was, as you expected, pure Hollywoodese. Come on now, what self-respecting Indian language would have a word like 'Chamoozie' in it?

Sounds like something Billy Mays would loudly pitch in a commercial.

You don't need a cabinet full of cleaners, not when you have Chamoozie. But wait, Chamoozie not only cleans your house, your car, and your cat, it also cures erectile dysfunction. Sheep herders swear by it....

 

[exodus]

The language they spoke was, as you expected, pure Hollywoodese. Come on now, what self-respecting Indian language would have a word like 'Chamoozie' in it?

Sounds like something Billy Mays would loudly pitch in a commercial.

You don't need a cabinet full of cleaners, not when you have Chamoozie. But wait, Chamoozie not only cleans your house, your car, and your cat, it also cures erectile dysfunction. Sheep herders swear by it....

SOLD!!!!!

 

[JustKate]

It reminds me of that song from Music Man - the one Buddy Hackett sings - I had to look it up, but it turns out it's called "Shipoopi," believe it or not. Actually, "Chamoozie" is a much better nonsense word than "Shipoopi." Should that perhaps have been the "Indian" language inventors' first clue that maybe, just m-a-a-a-y-b-e they weren't on quite the right track?