Cardassians: Reptiles or Mammals?

[Herbert1]

Memory Alpha describes the Cardassians as reptile-like while other sources suggest that the Cardassians are reptilian. Isn't this association with reptiles merely coincidence? Or has a link to reptiles been established for the Cardassians either through production notes or literature?

Cardassians have hair, the females have bumps that appear to be mammary glands, and Gul Dukat could breed and produce offspring with a Bajoran creating Tora Ziyal and another half-Bajoran/half-Cardassian child. (Perhaps he created others during the occupation) This evidence suggests that they are mammals.

Is it merely coincidence that Cardassians prefer warmer climates than most humanoids and they have patches of skin that appear to be scales and no link in fact exists with reptiles?

 

[Christopher]

There's no reason to expect that alien species would be divided into the exact same categories we have (mammal, reptile, bird, fish, etc.), any more than an alien planet would have the same continents as Earth. Alien taxa could combine qualities from different Earthly taxa, so you could have organisms that had some mammalian traits and some reptilian traits.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Here comes my totally non-canon answer, the one that I've gone with in my fanfics. Your mileage may vary.

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The Cardassians are similar to Earth mammals--but exist in their own subset much as the marsupials or monotremes of Earth do (the latter being an especially appropriate example). This means that while many characteristics are very similar to the more typical mammalian species, they exhibit other traits that seem reptilian in nature, that for whatever reason have been retained in their world's evolutionary track even though they were not on other worlds.

The relation between Earth's monotremes and other types of mammals in particular make a great comparison...as you can see, there was originally a great deal of dispute as to what they were. Another example of such a relation between groups--without the two groups being one and the same--is the relation between reptiles and class Aves (i.e. birds).

I would suspect the differences have to be less than those between reptiles and birds, or between placental mammals and monotremes...however, there is no reason those characteristics cannot be the same as some of those seen in Earth reptiles. (The ancestors of Earth's mammals, for instance, initially had scales and hair simultaneously...what if that arrangement had continued even as the rest of our features shifted into what we now recognize as mammalian?)

As for the interbreeding issue...who knows what Dukat had Tora Naprem treated with during the pregnancy (and the same when he got Mika pregnant)? I don't think we've ever seen how much (if any) medical intervention is required to bring a cross-species pregnancy to term when Cardassians are involved. Therefore I don't think that can be a criterion for determining exactly how similar the Cardassians are to Earth's placental mammals: who knows what kind of genetic meddling went on?

 

[Herbert1]

There's no reason to expect that alien species would be divided into the exact same categories we have (mammal, reptile, bird, fish, etc.), any more than an alien planet would have the same continents as Earth. Alien taxa could combine qualities from different Earthly taxa, so you could have organisms that had some mammalian traits and some reptilian traits.

Maybe. We can presume that alien environment may produce different lifeforms that are similar or disimilar to mammals, reptiles, birds, fishes, fungi, and plants. Or another category that is totally alien to life on Earth.

But the television programs routinely show unions of alien races producing offspring through natural conception, and sometimes unintended at that since Dukat intended to murder Ziyal because her existence was an embarassment to him and his family. I don't believe that Dukat would have been so eager to murder her if artificial means were necessary for her to be conceived and developed to term.

In addition, this hybrid offspring is not sterile and can produce children.

The only way that I can really suspend my disbelief is to rationalize that the humanoid races in "The Chase" are a lot more alike genetically.

I can believe in sex between alien races, just cannot swallow offspring through natural means.

 

[Rÿcher]

Have you read Science Logs? Good book actually! While I don't remember exactly what the writer said was but I think the gist was that the Cardassians were serpentine (probably cobra-like) who later evolved bipedal and mammalian traits. I think the book said (this could just be my imagination) that the female Cardassian's blueish tinge on the spoon-like appendage on their forehead might have changed color depending upon their mating cycle or readiness.

 

[The Borg Queen]

When you realise that Human and Ocampa reproductive physiology is completely different, yet a hybrid is fertile and able to reproduce with a human herself, you realise that the writers probably don't have a clue about how reproduction actually works.

Cue the jokes about geeks being virgins...

 

[Bacl]

When you realise that Human and Ocampa reproductive physiology is completely different, yet a hybrid is fertile and able to reproduce with a human herself, you realise that the writers probably don't have a clue about how reproduction actually works.

Cue the jokes about geeks being virgins...

They finally started to grasp this when they said Worf and Dax couldn't have a baby...but then trashed it for a "magic box" answer when they said that they could.

 

[Marie1]

I think the book said (this could just be my imagination) that the female Cardassian's blueish tinge on the spoon-like appendage on their forehead might have changed color depending upon their mating cycle or readiness.

I always thought that was make-up? Since its not on all the neck ridges...

I'd think that something biologically must be rather close in Bajorans and Cardassians (probably closer than they'd like to think) since they can reproduce, and I've never been under the impression that those offspring were infertile. I mean, a mule is a horse and a donkey right? But a horse/donkey combo can't have young, nor for that matter can a Liger (male lion and a female tiger)... not sure about Tigons (male tiger and a female lion) though.

 

[xoEJox]

Heck, I remember that in one of my old Mike Westmore makeup journals, he said that they originally had more of of a crustacean influence on their look. Finally we saw the homeworld, and it appeared to be highly aquatic, with the cities built around and on water.

I always kind of regretted that they seemed to drop that aspect of their alien-ness, which could have been quite cool. I wondered what kind of wierd traits and abilities they could have had, if they had been developed.

That being said, they do seem to fall into their own class of varmint. They ended up being a hybrid of a variety of things, depending on who was writing them.

 

[Therin of Andor]

One of the stories in "New Worlds, New Civilizations", a deluxe art book with text by Michael Jan Friedman, suggests a link back to the ancient Hebitians, possibly a common ancestor of both Cardassians and Bajorans, which also allows for how easily Dukat could interbreed with Bajorans.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Ziel seemed to be an unplanned accident, that suggests that they are mammals. Also the parts all seem to line up, obviously the Cardies don't lay eggs..

 

[Marie1]

One of the stories in "New Worlds, New Civilizations", a deluxe art book with text by Michael Jan Friedman, suggests a link back to the ancient Hebitians, possibly a common ancestor of both Cardassians and Bajorans, which also allows for how easily Dukat could interbreed with Bajorans.

Neat... I remember some mention of them in a Stitch in Time but I didn't know much else...

 

[KRAD]

Finally we saw the homeworld, and it appeared to be highly aquatic, with the cities built around and on water.

Erm -- all cities are built near water. Cities wouldn't have been put there otherwise....

(Okay, that's no longer true with technology, but the oldest cities are all on water for very good reason.)

And the different-species-interbreeding thing pretty much was a done deal when Spock first said that one of his ancestors was a human female in "Where No Man Has Gone Before," unfortunately.

 

[Trent Roman]

While mammals and reptiles never really shared an evolutionary branch per se, both having split off from amphibians, synapsids and therapsids--the ancestors of mammals--were animals very reptilian in appearance and morphology for dozens of millions of years. Indeed, therapsids were the dominant species until the P-Tr Extinction Event. I could easily see Cardassians as therapsids with mammaliaform features who evolved into the humanoid form.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Christopher]

Have you read Science Logs? Good book actually! While I don't remember exactly what the writer said was but I think the gist was that the Cardassians were serpentine (probably cobra-like) who later evolved bipedal and mammalian traits. I think the book said (this could just be my imagination) that the female Cardassian's blueish tinge on the spoon-like appendage on their forehead might have changed color depending upon their mating cycle or readiness.

I always thought the blue tinge was makeup, the Cardassian equivalent of eye shadow.

And serpents evolving into bipeds doesn't make a lot of sense. Snakes' ancestors had legs but then lost them. It would make more sense to claim they descended from a quadrupedal reptilian form -- although, as pointed out, they're clearly viviparous and have other mammalian features, so the allusions to monotremes and therapsids make a lot more sense.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

While mammals and reptiles never really shared an evolutionary branch per se, both having split off from amphibians, synapsids and therapsids--the ancestors of mammals--were animals very reptilian in appearance and morphology for dozens of millions of years. Indeed, therapsids were the dominant species until the P-Tr Extinction Event. I could easily see Cardassians as therapsids with mammaliaform features who evolved into the humanoid form.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

Thanks for explaining that much more clearly than I did. I did my research, but DANG--evolutionary science and even biological classification systems have changed BIG time since I was little and studied this stuff the most closely. (The scary part is it hasn't even been that long!)

You know...at least to my eye, the Cardassian vole looks like it could be a therapsid of some sort. Again, one with a lot of mammalian traits, but that may be close to what it is. The cynodonts especially come close. Check out Oligokyphus, for instance...that is, evolutionarily speaking, almost JUST before the leap to the kind of mammals we're used to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Oligokyphus_BW.jpg

 

[Trent Roman]

I always thought the blue tinge was makeup, the Cardassian equivalent of eye shadow.

That's the explanation the books have gone with. I remember a scene from Fearful Symmetry where Illiana and her mother are applying such make-up, first to the forehead scoop and then between her breasts.

You know...at least to my eye, the Cardassian vole looks like it could be a therapsid of some sort. Again, one with a lot of mammalian traits, but that may be close to what it is. The cynodonts especially come close. Check out Oligokyphus, for instance...that is, evolutionarily speaking, almost JUST before the leap to the kind of mammals we're used to.

I must admit, I don't know what a vole looks like. Have we ever seen one onscreen?

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[DS9Continuing]

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/9/9d/Cardassianvole.jpg

 

[Trent Roman]

Aha. Thanks lvsxy808.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

You know, I JUST now noticed the tip of the tail on that thing looks like the back end of a Galor!

If you look closely, you can also see ridges sweeping down from the ears onto the vole's jaw. Definitely from whatever general class the Cardassians themselves are...