Spoilers Baze Malbus, Mandalorian? Chirrut Imwe, Force-Sensitive?

[JRoss]

I only tagged for spoilers in case people want to spoil in here.

So, my two questions are Is Baze Malbus a Mandalorian and Is Chirrut Imwe force-sensitive?

Baze' armor looks Mandalorian to me. The actor's appearance reminds me of Jango, even though the actors are different ethnicities.

Chirrut, what do we think? He seems to be able to get around and fight much better than would seem to be capable for a non force-sensitive, plus how did know that Jyn was walking in that crowded street, and what to say to her? I got the feeling that he sensed her kyber crystal.

 

[Reverend]

^No and no.
They're both Guardians of the Whills and Protectors of the Temple of the Kyber in the Holy City of Jedha. Since the Jedi are all gone and the Empire stripped the temple of all the crystals, it's basically an empty shell and the former protectors are little more than homeless zealots, street beggers and (for non-pilgrims like the Empire) troublemakers.
Neither are force sensitive, or at least no more than the average person and certainly not on the level of a Jedi. They are believers, though Baze is considerably more jaded while Chirrut's faith is still strong.

 

[Venardhi]

Chirrut seems to have at least a little sensitivity. Not enough for telekinesis or mind tricks, but his senses and reflexes were certainly above what a normal human should be capable of, especially a blind one. And his final scene clearly suggests there is more going on than one-way faith.

 

[Ithekro]

Force sensitive I would guess, but not a Jedi in any way. Probably not very strong in the Force, a lower to midrange midichrlorian count. He can barely hear the will of the Force. It is enough to bolster his faith, and possibly his senses, but even humans can train to use their other senses when blind to do seeming incredible feats. Being able to sense the kyber crystal on Jyn was likely the Force. His faith in trusting the will of the Force was also likely the Force (since it is a real thing in Star Wars). Most of the rest of it is his own skills.

 

[Reverend]

^Sensing the necklace probably has more to do with long-term exposure to the kybers in the temple than any innate sensitivity. It's mentioned in 'Catalyst' that kybers (aka "living crystals") can affect people's awareness, even their dreams and the like when in close proximity.

Personally I never got much of a sense that Chirrut has anything more than absolute faith. Indeed, I'd argue that it would be cheating from a character point of view if he really could consciously feel and use the force. Part of the point of faith is that it doesn't need proof.

I have to say I'm liking this new addition to the lore. The idea that their are a thousand religions like this and that they all have monks, priests and zealots with varying grasps and interpretations of the force (some doubtlessly false) lends a little more credence to the idea that the stories of the Jedi were so quickly dismissed. "Hokey religions" & "simple tricks and nonsense" indeed.

 

[JRoss]

^No and no.
They're both Guardians of the Whills and Protectors of the Temple of the Kyber in the Holy City of Jedha. Since the Jedi are all gone and the Empire stripped the temple of all the crystals, it's basically an empty shell and the former protectors are little more than homeless zealots, street beggers and (for non-pilgrims like the Empire) troublemakers.
Neither are force sensitive, or at least no more than the average person and certainly not on the level of a Jedi. They are believers, though Baze is considerably more jaded while Chirrut's faith is still strong.

Just because he's not a Jedi doesn't mean he can't sense the force.

 

[Ithekro]

It is that grey area were we aren't sure if he can sense the Force, if only barely, or if his faith is so great that the Force uses him anyway (the Will of the Force).


As for Baze, probably not a Mandalorean. No real reason he needs to be one, and they pretty much hate the Jedi traditionally, so it would be unlikely he'd be defending a old Jedi temple.

 

[Reverend]

Just because he's not a Jedi doesn't mean he can't sense the force.

Where exactly did I make any such correlative assertion?

It is that grey area were we aren't sure if he can sense the Force, if only barely, or if his faith is so great that the Force uses him anyway (the Will of the Force).

This is why I said "no more than the average person". Everyone is part of the force and can probably feel it to some small degree if they truly open themselves to it. But for the most part, it's Imwe's faith that the force is with him that defines his actions. Not anything materially conclusive, which is the whole point of faith.

I think they even suggested that the force is with Han despite his not being consciously aware of it. That's why in TFA is does a little double-take what he blasts that trooper without looking, as if he's surprised he even did it.

As for Baze, probably not a Mandalorean. No real reason he needs to be one, and they pretty much hate the Jedi traditionally, so it would be unlikely he'd be defending a old Jedi temple.

Yeah there's no reason to draw any connection there beyond 1) he seems to like heavy weaponry and 2) he's played by an Asian actor and Sabine's features are designed to be Asian in appearance.
Of course point 2 ignores the fact that so far Sabine is the only Mandalorian with such features, and several other non-Mandalorians have been played by Asians.

 

[Spot's Meow]

I definitely walked away feeling like Chirrut has some force sensitivity, even if small. There were many times when it was shown that he could sense things easier/faster than others simply because he has extremely good hearing, due to having to hone that sense on account of his blindness, but there were other times that I felt it went a little beyond that.

 

[The Wormhole]

I'm pretty certain Chirrut must have some midichlorians in his blood. Probably not enough to warrant the attention of the Jedi when they were around, or the Inquisitors in this day and age, but he certainly seems attuned to the Force in a small degree.

 

[Set Harth]

Everyone has some midichlorians according to Liam Neeson. The question is how many.

 

[Reverend]

I definitely walked away feeling like Chirrut has some force sensitivity, even if small. There were many times when it was shown that he could sense things easier/faster than others simply because he has extremely good hearing, due to having to hone that sense on account of his blindness, but there were other times that I felt it went a little beyond that.

They made a point in that initial confrontation to show close-ups of the troopers' hands and feet and emphasise the noises they were making. This to me says someone able to focus and attune their natural senses, not supernatural senses. Also, he's really really skilled with that staff.
Remember that Zatoichi didn't need magic powers to kick some serious arse.

I'm pretty certain Chirrut must have some midichlorians in his blood. Probably not enough to warrant the attention of the Jedi when they were around, or the Inquisitors in this day and age, but he certainly seems attuned to the Force in a small degree.

Everybody has minichlorians in their cells. That's kind of the point.

 

[Set Harth]

The Zatoichis we've had in SW before were Jedi, though - Rahm Kota and now

Spoiler

Kanan.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Maybe he was supposed to be a Miraluka? (Yes, I know - they have vestigial eye sockets and not blind-looking eyes. But still - maybe a nod to them, at any rate.) At any rate - there's nothing that says that a Guardian of the Whills can't also be a Jedi, and a little to make me think that they would be, since presumably some of the Khyber crystals were being used for lightsabers when the temple was in proper use. Until something canonical or at least convincing to me says otherwise, my thinking is that Imwe was a Jedi, and Malbus was a clone trooper sent to "help guard the temple" (really, to be in place to carry out Order 66 and take the temple), but Imwe somehow got him over to his side. It might have just been me, but I thought I saw the subtext of some kind of an intimate relationship between the two of them (romantic, or just like close brothers, or like Malbus had been the caretaker for the blind man sometimes, the subtext wasn't so obvious to me about), so perhaps that was it.

 

[Reverend]

1) They specifically said he's not a Jedi, both in the movie itself and out of it prior to release.
2) Jiang Wen looks nothing at all like Temuera Morrison. I'm sorry, but that's just stupid.

I'm reading the novelisation now and it says the same thing. Not a Jedi. Never was. They're "Guardians of the Whills".

 

[Venardhi]

Baze clearly feels a loyalty and responsibility over Chirrut. Felt more like a brotherhood kind of relationship but I can see how it could have been romantic or otherwise. The nature of it isn't all that important in the end. His brand of reluctant, exasperated acceptance that Chirrut was going to follow these rebels because "The Force" wanted him to feels very much like a best friend who has to make sure his impulsive, free-spirited, irresponsible counterpart doesn't get himself in too much trouble.

 

[Reverend]

There's definitely an "old married couple" vibe between the two of them, but that need not be literal. Indeed Artoo & Threepio have pretty much the same dynamic and they're obviously not capable of even comprehending squishy organic romance.
That's probably not a coincidence as these guys feel very much like they just walked in off of a Kurosawa movie and the droids are explicitly based on Tahei and Matashichi from 'The Hidden Fortress'.

 

[JRoss]

2) Jiang Wen looks nothing at all like Temuera Morrison. I'm sorry, but that's just stupid.

Nobody is ever sorry when they apologize right before being rude. I don't personally think the base was a clone trooper but with his hair that long and with those curls I could see someone mistaking him for a Pacific Islander. In fact who's to say that with that wait and maybe some scars and hair grown out and 18 years that Jango wouldn't grow to look like that.

 

[Ithekro]

Save that we know that a Clone Trooper would look like an old man by Rogue One, since clones ages twice as fast, and we've seen three of them in Rebels depicted three years before Rogue One. Grey haired men that look to be around 60 years old.

 

[Reverend]

Nobody is ever sorry when they apologize right before being rude. I don't personally think the base was a clone trooper but with his hair that long and with those curls I could see someone mistaking him for a Pacific Islander. In fact who's to say that with that wait and maybe some scars and hair grown out and 18 years that Jango wouldn't grow to look like that.

First off, I said the idea was stupid, not the person forwarding it. Somehow I don't think idea are capable of being offended.
Secondly, claiming a Chinese person with long hair is indistinguishably from a person of Māori-Scottish/Irish decent is so far beyond both rude and stupid as to be bordering on ignorant racism. So again, the idea is on the face of it utterly moronic and wholly worthy of ridicule.

Save that we know that a Clone Trooper would look like an old man by Rogue One, since clones ages twice as fast, and we've seen three of them in Rebels depicted three years before Rogue One. Grey haired men that look to be around 60 years old.

It's all a bit moot anyway. I just got to the part of the novelization where they leave Jedah and it's explicitly stated that it's a first for both of them.