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Actors and camera movement accuracy when the ship is shaken violently.

enterprisecvn65

Captain
Captain
So as everyone knows when the Enterprise shakes violently it's not really the set shaking it's the camera and the actors try to copy the fashion the camera shakes.

I've always enjoyed watching these shots to see how in sync they are. Sometimes they are pretty good, sometimes it's funny as hell how off they are.

In TWOK it's really amusing because in the span of a few minutes there is one of the best shots of that kind to one of the worst. So the shot of the bridge crew, where someone screams (I think it's Sulu) all being thrown to the right of the screen when Khan's first blast hits I thought was excellent. I've watched it in slo mo and they were all really in sync and it looked great, even if it was a quick shot.

Yet only a few minutes later when Khan fires the photon torpedo that hits the bridge if you watch the person standing at the console at the very back of the bridge near the turbolift door you can see he totally throws him self away on purpose in almost a cartoon like fashion when noone else moves, and he does so a good few seconds before the console explodes. It was a terrible telegraph I noticed even as a kid.

While I'm on the topic a few similar things that always kind of made me laugh.

* In the same initial confrontation scene with Reliant when Enterprise fires back there's some damage to the Reliant's bridge including some wires and panels falling from the ceiling. There's a guy in that that looks like he was literally up in the ceiling and he comes diving down with all the debris? That always made me laugh.

* Also in TWOK a moment after Spock says they are entering the Mutata Nebula there's a jolt that causes the bridge crew to all lurch forward EXCEPT KIRK who literally doesn't move a muscle. I know he has the arm restraints in the captain's chair that would help, but even so you'd think his head or upper body would lurch a little, but nothing. I always wondered if Shatner did that on purpose to make Kirk look stronger than everyone else and Meyer either didn't catch it or just let it go.

* Finally in TUC when Excelsior is first hit there's a shot similar to TWOK where the bridge crew is thrown to the right. Only it looks like the flying Graysons. I swear some of the stuntmen were perched on shelves off camera and jumped because they were already 5 or 6 feet off the floor and it looks all the world to me that one or two of them are actually doing cartwheels.

It's always amusing watching how well they get the actors and stuntmen to cooridinate their movements.....especially on TOS.
 
Re: Actors and camera movement accuracy when the ship is shaken violen

* Finally in TUC when Excelsior is first hit there's a shot similar to TWOK where the bridge crew is thrown to the right. Only it looks like the flying Graysons. I swear some of the stuntmen were perched on shelves off camera and jumped because they were already 5 or 6 feet off the floor and it looks all the world to me that one or two of them are actually doing cartwheels.

It's always amusing watching how well they get the actors and stuntmen to cooridinate their movements.....especially on TOS.

I actually liked seeing crewmen flung all around the Excelsior in TUC, but I'm sadistic like that. A worse crime was the first attack on Enterprise -- the torpedo hit the portside, but everyone was knocked from starboard-to-port! They repeated the shot for Excelsior but got it right the second time around.

I never really paid much attention to it, I feel like TUC and Generations had improved choreography compared to previous Trek when it came to shaking.

The only thing with Generations was that every console and their motherboard seemed to be a deathtrap, launching people into the air and over Worf's console. Even without surge protectors, that seems a bit of overkill (but it's dynamic, I'll give them that).
 
Re: Actors and camera movement accuracy when the ship is shaken violen

remember theres one in TMP when the Ents in the wormhole and one of the crew looks at though hes trying to touch Deckers bottom :D

TWOK had the most brutal one when one crewman gets burned alive

TSFS when the Ent gets hit by the BOP and Shat flings himself to the handrail and goes 'ohhhhh!'

the TNG movies had some with the acrobat stuntmen (Gen & Ins especially)
 
Re: Actors and camera movement accuracy when the ship is shaken violen

You're just giving me yet another reason to piss my girlfriend of with a TOS movie re-watch. Damn and blast.
 
Re: Actors and camera movement accuracy when the ship is shaken violen

* Finally in TUC when Excelsior is first hit there's a shot similar to TWOK where the bridge crew is thrown to the right. Only it looks like the flying Graysons. I swear some of the stuntmen were perched on shelves off camera and jumped because they were already 5 or 6 feet off the floor and it looks all the world to me that one or two of them are actually doing cartwheels.

It's always amusing watching how well they get the actors and stuntmen to cooridinate their movements.....especially on TOS.

I actually liked seeing crewmen flung all around the Excelsior in TUC, but I'm sadistic like that. A worse crime was the first attack on Enterprise -- the torpedo hit the portside, but everyone was knocked from starboard-to-port! They repeated the shot for Excelsior but got it right the second time around.

I never really paid much attention to it, I feel like TUC and Generations had improved choreography compared to previous Trek when it came to shaking.

The only thing with Generations was that every console and their motherboard seemed to be a deathtrap, launching people into the air and over Worf's console. Even without surge protectors, that seems a bit of overkill (but it's dynamic, I'll give them that).

Yeah one of my friends commented that the problem of the consoles always overloading and exploding could be fixed if they chose to use a sophisticated 20th century invention known as a "fuse":lol:
 
Re: Actors and camera movement accuracy when the ship is shaken violen

* Finally in TUC when Excelsior is first hit there's a shot similar to TWOK where the bridge crew is thrown to the right. Only it looks like the flying Graysons. I swear some of the stuntmen were perched on shelves off camera and jumped because they were already 5 or 6 feet off the floor and it looks all the world to me that one or two of them are actually doing cartwheels.

That guy on the bridge in the first Excelsior literally diving across the set makes me laugh every time I see it.

I also remember an episode of of TOS where the bridge "banks" one way and Uhura falls up the other way.

Cyke101 said:
A worse crime was the first attack on Enterprise -- the torpedo hit the portside, but everyone was knocked from starboard-to-port!

One could explain that with inertia. The ship is hit portside so hard that it "slides" out from under the bridge crew, causing them to fly toward the impact.
 
Re: Actors and camera movement accuracy when the ship is shaken violen

* Finally in TUC when Excelsior is first hit there's a shot similar to TWOK where the bridge crew is thrown to the right. Only it looks like the flying Graysons. I swear some of the stuntmen were perched on shelves off camera and jumped because they were already 5 or 6 feet off the floor and it looks all the world to me that one or two of them are actually doing cartwheels.

That guy on the bridge in the first Excelsior literally diving across the set makes me laugh every time I see it.

I also remember an episode of of TOS where the bridge "banks" one way and Uhura falls up the other way.

Cyke101 said:
A worse crime was the first attack on Enterprise -- the torpedo hit the portside, but everyone was knocked from starboard-to-port!

One could explain that with inertia. The ship is hit portside so hard that it "slides" out from under the bridge crew, causing them to fly toward the impact.

I tend to agree with you about the hit in the Enterprise from khan. Normally when a ship is hit from the side people and objects are thrown in the same direction the weapon was heading when it impacted because it's going to move the ship in that direction.

But in TWOK reliant's first phaser hits didn't hit the main hull dead center. (Again ignoring space physics) it looked like the reliant was slightly higher than the enterprise and it was actually firing it's phasers down. So it hit the primary closer to the top then the middle and the effect of getting hit that way, plus the top heaviness of the saucer would actually cause the ship to be pushed down and roll to port, instead of jerking to starboard if it hit it dead middle. So in that context the bridge crew being throw to port would be accurate.

In fact the crews reaction on excelsior in TUC seems to me the one that is inaccurate. IIRC chang's first hit strikes Excelsior's saucer underside on port about 90 degrees from the front of the ship about half way between the center and edge of the saucer.

That kind of hit would almost certainly cause excelsior to be moved up and to starboard. Yet the bridge crew is thrown, just like in TWOK albeit in a much more animated fashion, to port.

That one seems like a real mistake you can explain away.
 
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Re: Actors and camera movement accuracy when the ship is shaken violen

* Finally in TUC when Excelsior is first hit there's a shot similar to TWOK where the bridge crew is thrown to the right. Only it looks like the flying Graysons. I swear some of the stuntmen were perched on shelves off camera and jumped because they were already 5 or 6 feet off the floor and it looks all the world to me that one or two of them are actually doing cartwheels.

It's always amusing watching how well they get the actors and stuntmen to cooridinate their movements.....especially on TOS.

I actually liked seeing crewmen flung all around the Excelsior in TUC, but I'm sadistic like that. A worse crime was the first attack on Enterprise -- the torpedo hit the portside, but everyone was knocked from starboard-to-port! They repeated the shot for Excelsior but got it right the second time around.

I never really paid much attention to it, I feel like TUC and Generations had improved choreography compared to previous Trek when it came to shaking.

The only thing with Generations was that every console and their motherboard seemed to be a deathtrap, launching people into the air and over Worf's console. Even without surge protectors, that seems a bit of overkill (but it's dynamic, I'll give them that).

Yeah one of my friends commented that the problem of the consoles always overloading and exploding could be fixed if they chose to use a sophisticated 20th century invention known as a "fuse":lol:

It's actually (I think) a mistake on the part of the movie-makers. TOS seldom did this exploding console thing on TV, but the one time when they did -- "Where No Man Has Gone Before", where many of the consoles on the bridge go bang, and some of them even catch fire -- it's actually justified by the Enterprise going through the great barrier.

In TWOK they did it for visual flair and to make things look exciting, but I think it all started to get a bit silly.
 
Re: Actors and camera movement accuracy when the ship is shaken violen

I actually liked seeing crewmen flung all around the Excelsior in TUC, but I'm sadistic like that. A worse crime was the first attack on Enterprise -- the torpedo hit the portside, but everyone was knocked from starboard-to-port! They repeated the shot for Excelsior but got it right the second time around.

I never really paid much attention to it, I feel like TUC and Generations had improved choreography compared to previous Trek when it came to shaking.

The only thing with Generations was that every console and their motherboard seemed to be a deathtrap, launching people into the air and over Worf's console. Even without surge protectors, that seems a bit of overkill (but it's dynamic, I'll give them that).

Yeah one of my friends commented that the problem of the consoles always overloading and exploding could be fixed if they chose to use a sophisticated 20th century invention known as a "fuse":lol:

It's actually (I think) a mistake on the part of the movie-makers. TOS seldom did this exploding console thing on TV, but the one time when they did -- "Where No Man Has Gone Before", where many of the consoles on the bridge go bang, and some of them even catch fire -- it's actually justified by the Enterprise going through the great barrier.

In TWOK they did it for visual flair and to make things look exciting, but I think it all started to get a bit silly.

I don't think in TOS they had the budget to actually do anything like Fire damage to the bridge. That's why the most serious damage that ever happens to the electronics is they just turn on and off. Which I'm sure was just some guy off camera plugging and unplugging the outlet several times.
 
Re: Actors and camera movement accuracy when the ship is shaken violen

How do you put a fuse on a plasma conduit?
 
Re: Actors and camera movement accuracy when the ship is shaken violen

I actually love watching the scenes where they're experiencing turbulence. I often see them shaking in their seats while the seats themselves are rock-steady. Kind of reminds me of that scene in Ace Vetura: When Nature Calls, where he's going down the bumpy road getting thrown all over the inside of the car, and the camera pulls back it's just Ace that's moving.
 
Re: Actors and camera movement accuracy when the ship is shaken violen

I actually liked seeing crewmen flung all around the Excelsior in TUC, but I'm sadistic like that. A worse crime was the first attack on Enterprise -- the torpedo hit the portside, but everyone was knocked from starboard-to-port! They repeated the shot for Excelsior but got it right the second time around.
Due to inertia, the crew should appear to move towards the impact location.
 
Re: Actors and camera movement accuracy when the ship is shaken violen

Cyke101 said:
A worse crime was the first attack on Enterprise -- the torpedo hit the portside, but everyone was knocked from starboard-to-port!

One could explain that with inertia. The ship is hit portside so hard that it "slides" out from under the bridge crew, causing them to fly toward the impact.

Eh, I kinda don't buy it, since the torpedo hit dead-on, rather than at an angle that would facilitate sliding.

It's not impossible, though. Later on in the battle we see what could be a torpedo bounce/ricochet off the Enterprise's saucer at nearly 90 degrees, which is cool for so many reasons.

Due to inertia, the crew should appear to move towards the impact location.

However, if true, that would then mean that Excelsior got it wrong, since the attack and the camera angle were virtually identitical to show parallel damage.

In either case, between the two ships, one of them got it wrong.

In TWOK they did it for visual flair and to make things look exciting, but I think it all started to get a bit silly.

In the actual battles, the sparks were indeed for visual flair but IIRC didn't really hurt anyone -- that was more of falling debris.

But our first taste of it is in the Kobayashi Maru, in which everyone died by spark, and I think everyone in TNG/DS9/VOY used that as a template. Which is ridiculous since the Kobayashi Maru was all just an act, and the sparks were essentially props like a knife or gun for make-believe death.
 
Re: Actors and camera movement accuracy when the ship is shaken violen

How do you put a fuse on a plasma conduit?

Plasma is a form of energy isn't it? It can be increased or decreased in intensity can't it?

Wouldn't the same basic principle of putting in a piece of material in the conduit that will melt or break if the intensity or temperature gets to be to high, thereby severing the link to systems that it could cause to overload still work essentially the same way an electrical fuse does.

I'm not saying it would look like a fuse you stick in your car, it'd be bigger and more sophisticated but the principle still works. Install something that can only take so much energy before it fails and it stops the power from reaching other systems to fry.

Really isn't that complicated.
 
Re: Actors and camera movement accuracy when the ship is shaken violen

How do you put a fuse on a plasma conduit?
Plasma is a form of energy isn't it? It can be increased or decreased in intensity can't it?
Plasma is a electrified gas. Best not to run plasma conduits to the bridge in the firrst place, simple wires or fiber optics would do nicely.

In TMP, after the ship emerges from the wormhole, the bridge crew stops shaking from the buffeting the ship was experiencing ... except Ilia, who continue to juggle up and down for some time.

:)
 
Re: Actors and camera movement accuracy when the ship is shaken violen

In TMP, after the ship emerges from the wormhole, the bridge crew stops shaking from the buffeting the ship was experiencing ... except Ilia, who continue to juggle up and down for some time.

Well, she'd taken an oath of celibacy; perhaps she was just having more fun with the chair-shake than anyone else...
 
Re: Actors and camera movement accuracy when the ship is shaken violen

Shouldn't we plead "inertia" again? ;)

It's indeed odd that people are thrown away from impacts in most cases; everyday physics would suggest the opposite. But starships supposedly have inertia control, and perhaps it's a case of this control overcompensating. It absorbs the initial thousand-gee hit, but then "bleeds it off" in a rather arbitrary direction.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Re: Actors and camera movement accuracy when the ship is shaken violen

I don't know about the other films, but Generations was special because thye set actually shook, not just the camera. Frakes explains about 12:55 in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgZxLmPlozE

The first bridge set that was built on gimbals was the Excelsior in The Undiscovered Country.

But the Excelsior bridge is a redress of the Enterprise bridge. So how does that work?
 
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