Consistent grammar mistake made

[Axesoleve]

Has anyone noticed how in TNG episodes (can't remember if it was in the other ST shows) characters are constantly using "I" when they should be using "me"?
For example, I just rewatched "Conundrum" and Riker says "No one was more surprised than I" which is just wrong wrong wrong and they frequently make that common grammar mistake.

-Apparently the mistake they so consistently made is referred to as "hyper-correction" ( http://www.helium.com/items/463483-common-grammar-mistakes-and-how-to-fix-them )

So yeah, it was a pretty noob-tastic grammar mistake to be made by such smart script-writers.

 

[Christopher]

Actually that's technically correct. He's basically saying "No one was more surprised than I was." That's a totally different thing from the overcorrection in "between you and I," which is the topic of your link and is definitely wrong.

 

[arasam22]

christopher is correct... "no one was more surprised that I" is definitely correct.

now if you were to say "She went to the store with Emily and I," THAT would be hypercorrection. (you don't say "she went to the store with I..."

 

[JustKate]

:: perks up at the sight of a grammar discussion thread ::

I agree with Christopher and Arasam22. The reason "I" is correct in "No one was more surprised than I" is that the final verb has been ellipsed. The sentence in its entirety is actually "No one was more surprised than I (was)," so "I" is in fact the right choice.

You are definitely right, Axesoleve, that people do use "I" a lot when they should use "me" - Arasam's example is a good one. But this isn't one of those times.

 

[TrekkieMonster]

:: perks up at the sight of a grammar discussion thread ::

I agree with Christopher and Arasam22. The reason "I" is correct in "No one was more surprised than I" is that the final verb has been ellipsed. The sentence in its entirety is actually "No one was more surprised than I (was)," so "I" is in fact the right choice.

You are definitely right, Axesoleve, that people do use "I" a lot when they should use "me" - Arasam's example is a good one. But this isn't one of those times.

Beat me to it. Couldn't have said it better, myself.

It's one of my pet peeves, too.

I actually had an amusing, and somewhat frightening, incident involving this particular grammatical nuance a couple of years ago. I do a bit of training for my company. At the break in one of the sessions, a woman came up to me and said she didn't want to embarrass me but that, as a "teacher", she thought I'd want to know that I'd made a grammatical mistake in the first part of my presentation. I'd said something along the lines of, "If you call to discuss 'issue X' you'll end up either talking with Bob or me." She elaborated that she'd been an English teacher for some years and she just thought I should know that I should have said "Bob or I" in that situation.

I was floored. Unfortunately, instead of nodding politely and ignoring her, I tried to educate her in the error of her ways, as one early English teacher had done me: by using the trusty ol' "break the sentence into two" trick. That is, the sentence above is the same as if I had said, "If you call to discuss 'issue X' you'll end up talking to Bob;" and "If you call to discuss 'issue X' you'll end up talking to me," hoping it would be clear that it would not be grammatically correct to say, in the second instance, "If you call to discuss 'issue X' you'll end up talking to I."

She just looked at me like this, by turns, and walked away.

 

[JustKate]

Have any of my fellow grammar geeks read Gentlemen Prefer Blondes by Anita Loos? She has the heroine/narrator, Lorelei, hypercorrect herself and use "I" when she should use "me" a lot. It's hilarious, too.

She just looked at me like this, by turns, and walked away.

Ah, yes - the old "I'm and English teacher" line. I edit a magazine, and trust me, I have definitely experienced this (as well as someone pointing out genuinely questionable constructions). Well, whatcha gonna do? Maybe, just maybe, she went home and looked it up in a book, preparatory to writing you a firm, "See - I told you so!" letter, and found out that she was wrong-oh. We can only hope so.

 

[Christopher]

I've come across more than one teacher who didn't know basic things about the subject they were teaching. I once had a college physics professor who didn't know that a pound was a unit of force/weight instead of mass -- and what's scary is that nobody else in the class seemed to know it either, or else they were just too authority-bound to question the teacher. I had an English teacher who pronounced "synecdoche" as "synectady," and a physics teacher who said "Aristophanes" when he meant "Eratosthenes." And what really takes the cake: I had a high school biology teacher who was a creationist. And it was a very good public high school overall, and not in the South. (Although the teacher was from Louisiana, I think.)

 

[Axesoleve]

Thanks for all the replies guys! If I ever find it actually incorrectly used I'll make sure to note it down.
Oh and my biology teacher was a creationist too who started going on about the Ark once, we all just blankly stared at her - nonetheless she was the best teacher I ever had.

 

[RoJoHen]

It's also possible that scriptwriters realize that people don't always speak with proper grammar. I tend to be a pretty big stickler for proper grammar in writing, but I certainly make mistakes when speaking. Even fictional characters are allowed to use incorrect grammar from time to time.

Now, if it was Data that was making lots of grammatical errors, then we might have a real issue.

 

[JustKate]

I actually don't think the writers did include many grammatical errors - I can't help but listen for that stuff, and I didn't hear very many. And the ones that were there were there for a good reason.

I can see using "me" in this example, though, despite the fact that it's not strictly correct. It might sound more colloquial, and colloquialness (?) is important in dialog.

 

[WillsBabe]

I like a bit of grammar, too (although, despite an English degree, there are still things I don't get!) I think the writers did a good job with the grammar, afterall, they're probably grammar geeks, too.

 

[Trek Survivor]

And what really takes the cake: I had a high school biology teacher who was a creationist. And it was a very good public high school overall, and not in the South. (Although the teacher was from Louisiana, I think.)

I know several scientists who are not only Christians, but Creationists. It is an incorrect assumption on your part (and amongst athiests) and others that the two are incompatible. They are not.

 

[JarodRussell]

Isn't the whole show based on a grammar mistake? "To boldly go..." anyone? I read that this wasn't correct, or at least pretty unusual.

 

[Timo]

AFAIK, the habit of frowning on "split infinitives" is a dying one, and has always been limited to a certain snobbish clique of old British codgers anyway (insert mental image of Arthur C. Clarke). Just have a look at the wikipedia entry, and choose your sides (and weapons)...

Word order in English is rather optional anyway, compared to basically any other language. It's actually quite difficult to do understandable Yodaspeak in, say, germanic languages, while the clarity of English very little from such reshuffling suffers.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Deckerd]

Correct, you are.

 

[backstept]

I tend to think it was done for aesthetic reasons, rather than as a mistake
or it could have been a mistake, but was kept that way because it sounds nice

 

[JustKate]

Isn't the whole show based on a grammar mistake? "To boldly go..." anyone? I read that this wasn't correct, or at least pretty unusual.

Nope, Timo and Deckerd are right - that is not a mistake, although some of my fellow grammar geeks can get pretty riled by it. It's what's known as a split infinitive, and there is actually nothing wrong with splitting one's infinitives. So if sometimes you want to boldly go and other times you want to go boldly, feel free. It all comes down to emphasis and cadence.

Edit: I guess there might even be circumstances in which you want boldly to go although I can't personally think of one right this second...

 

[Deckerd]

I can think of some circumstances where you could use baldly to go.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Isn't the whole show based on a grammar mistake? "To boldly go..." anyone? I read that this wasn't correct, or at least pretty unusual.

Nope, Timo and Deckerd are right - that is not a mistake, although some of my fellow grammar geeks can get pretty riled by it. It's what's known as a split infinitive, and there is actually nothing wrong with splitting one's infinitives. So if sometimes you want to boldly go and other times you want to go boldly, feel free. It all comes down to emphasis and cadence.

If I remember accurately, and I'm sure JustKate can confirm or correct this, the problem originated with prescriptive grammars during the time of Early Modern English. Latin rules of grammar were applied to English due to the prevalent belief that Latin was a pinnacle of linguistic achievement and English should emulate it, even though the rhythms of the two languages are in fact nothing alike. There are still people who frown upon certain constructions as poor grammar when the "rule" should probably never have been there in the first place, and simply doesn't fit the language.

 

[Deckerd]

The emergence of periphrastic 'do' is a good bedtime read.