Black hole transit = slingshot effect

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Lindley, Jun 10, 2009.

  1. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Location:
    Bonney Lake, WA
    One of the things that bugged me about the movie was the idea that falling into a black hole could send you back in time.

    Well, that bugged me after I got over the fact that a black hole with at little initial mass as those shouldn't be sucking in anything not directly in its own trajectory.

    But I got to thinking: If a ship fell past the event horizon while attempting to escape at high warp, then the slingshot effect might begin to take hold---the ship would begin moving back in time, just like it was going around a sun.

    Except.....this is a very new black hole. So as soon as the time reversal begins, suddenly the black hole isn't there anymore. This would represent an enormous warp breakaway and might just be enough to fling a ship through space as well as time to the distant locations Spock and Nero ended up.
     
  2. SonicRanger

    SonicRanger Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2001
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Sometimes a black hole is just a black hole, but sometime may allow travel...

    http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2003/04/58359

     
  3. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Location:
    Bloom County
    And then I remembered that Star Trek is fiction...
     
  4. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Location:
    Bonney Lake, WA
    No, really? Why doesn't anyone tell us these things?
     
  5. Creedence

    Creedence Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2009
    Location:
    Eating a suitcase honeydew.
    I think it may be fair to say that black holes rarely exist in their pure destroy-everything-nothing-escapes state in the Star Trek universe(s). They quite often act as worm holes that join distant places and may also traverse time, forward or back.

    If there's a way to use a black hole - even a new one - to effect time travel, I'm sure Spock could figure out the math.
     
  6. Silversmok3

    Silversmok3 Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Well, since current science has no means of verifying what happens when you do pass an event horizon of a Black Hole, it could take you back in time. Or it could take you forward in time. Or it could convert you into cheeze.

    We just dont know, and unless someone built an FTL ship in their garage, we wont know for a looonnnnnng time.
     
  7. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Location:
    Bonney Lake, WA
    Current science actually does have some fairly reasonable models of what a fall into a black hole would look like:
    http://casa.colorado.edu/~ajsh/schw.shtml

    But the mystery is what happens at the singularity itself. That's the part we don't have a clue about.
     
  8. Peter the Younger

    Peter the Younger Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2001
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA, USA
    There are multiple ways it could have gone down. As SonicRanger pointed out, there are types of singularities that can spawn wormholes, and wormholes can readily become time machines if the two ends are in different reference frames.

    If we don't want to go the wormhole route, we could also say that warp fields, being themselves a distortion of spacetime, act as a sort of multiplier to the gravitational curvature of a black hole (or the sun, if you want to bring ST IV into it.) So you can treat the singularity as if it was a Tipler cylinder or some other utterly massive object, which is typically what physicists use for timelike curve, slingshot-style time travel.