How important do you feel "Countdown" is? - Page 2

Dennis · November 3 2009, 03:35 AM

I haven't read it and I like the movie just fine. So I'd say that it's of no importance whatever.

Chrisisall · November 3 2009, 03:58 AM

Dennis wrote:

I haven't read it and I like the movie just fine. So I'd say that it's of no importance whatever.

Your dismissive statement is not based upon any cogent data available to you; it is at best a non-sequitur, and at worst, an over-emotional and illogical negative reaction against the comic book medium.

Dennis · November 3 2009, 04:31 AM

Not surprisingly, you're entirely wrong. There's nothing either illogical or emotional about my statement and it contains no value judgments regarding "the comic book medium" at all.

As others have noted, perhaps one percent or fewer of the people who've seen this film have ever even heard of "Countdown," much less read it. If the comic were at all important to either enjoying or understanding the movie then the studio would have been royally fucked.

Fortunately, "Countdown" isn't at all important. That the people who have read it seem to have largely enjoyed it and some feel it filled in some blanks for them is nice for them, but that's all.

Oh, and non sequitur is not hyphenated.

Chrisisall · November 3 2009, 05:33 AM

Dennis wrote:

If the comic were at all important to either enjoying or understanding the movie then the studio would have been royally fucked.

"Important" is your interpretation, sir, not mine. I merely state that it enhances the viewing experience of Abrams' Trek, not that it is important to it.

Fortunately, "Countdown" isn't at all important. That the people who have read it seem to have largely enjoyed it and some feel it filled in some blanks for them is nice for them, but that's all.

Still, having never read it, to comment on its "importance" is problematic at best, do you not agree?

Oh, and non sequitur is not hyphenated.

Thank you. Your Earth languages and their idiosyncrasies do sometimes give me pause.

Therin of Andor · November 3 2009, 07:44 AM

Chrisisall wrote:

Your dismissive statement is not based upon any cogent data available to you; it is at best a non-sequitur, and at worst, an over-emotional and illogical negative reaction against the comic book medium.

I didn't find Dennis's comment insulting at all.

"Countdown", "Nero" and "Spock Reflections" are as important as Gene Roddenberry's novelization of ST:TMP. I was fortunate enough to have been intrigued enough by the photos and captions in the middle of the Australian printing of TMP's novelization that I bought the book, devoured it in a weekend, raced off to see the movie (alone!), and became the ST fan I am today. It's an important publication to me, and it helped me to enjoy the first ST movie more than my friends (even when recommended it), but that doesn't mean it is insulting for someone else to say it's not important to the franchise, or the fans at large.

M'Sharak · November 3 2009, 07:54 AM

Therin of Andor wrote:

Chrisisall wrote:

Your dismissive statement is not based upon any cogent data available to you; it is at best a non-sequitur, and at worst, an over-emotional and illogical negative reaction against the comic book medium.

I didn't find Dennis's comment insulting at all.

I suspect that Chrisisall's reply wasn't entirely serious, either.

Broccoli · November 3 2009, 08:12 AM

Countdown isn't required to enjoy/follow the movie. However, it does give the background of Nero which was mostly absent in the movie.

It is also an enjoyable and fun read.

Chrisisall · November 3 2009, 07:44 PM

M'Sharak wrote:

I suspect that Chrisisall's reply wasn't entirely serious, either.

Yeah, I was just doing "irritating Vulcan" with him.

lstyer · November 3 2009, 09:23 PM

I thought it was okay, but it didn't quite fit in with the movie in my opinion.

The whole Borg angle, for instance, I felt hurt more than helped. I would have preferred if a big mining ship from like 150 years in the future was just tough enough to beat up older ships with its weapons and weaponized mining equipment, which pretty much seemed to be how it worked in the movie.

Nero's backstory, as presented in Countdown, didn't quite work for me, particularly his interactions with Spock, but Spock's own part in the comic did work for me, so that's kind of odd.

In the end, I felt it was worth the price of the comic, but not up to the quality of either the movie itself or of a good Trek comic.

As far as "important," I guess not terribly. A little more backstory on Nero/Spock/Romulus would have been nice in the movie, but I'm not sure that what Countdown brings to the table really addresses that problem anyway.

Chrisisall · November 3 2009, 11:00 PM

lstyer wrote:

Nero's backstory, as presented in Countdown, didn't quite work for me

One problem with the comic (and it can apply to most comics, I think) was the rapid pace- in trying to tell a lot, the "shots" tend to move by too fast, particularly when the art isn't fascinating in some way, or heavily detailed. This has the effect of "cheapening" heavy or emotional moments. This might be part of the reason it wasn't working for you in some ways.
Just an idea.

Stone_Cold_Sisko · November 4 2009, 12:06 AM

Dennis wrote:

I haven't read it and I like the movie just fine. So I'd say that it's of no importance whatever.

Not that I disagree with the general theme of what you're saying, but how would you know? Its possible you'd enjoy the movie even more. Countdown adds a fair amount of depth to the "why Nero hates Spock" thing, which imo was a little thin in the movie.

urbandk · November 4 2009, 02:26 AM

Cyke101 wrote:

urbandk wrote:

I wasn't a huge fan. Too many cameos. Character development was rather thin. It just wasn't my style. I'd almost prefer some mystery surrounding Nero.

*takes a sip of the Countdown soup*

Hm, needs more Robau.

Yeah, actually, no joke... some Robau issues would have been excellent. Would have given more heft to those characters, not that Robau needed more heft.

GhostFaceSaint · November 4 2009, 02:32 AM

I didn't like the artist in countdown, that aside; I don't think countdown is very important at all just a side story introducing more of Nero's background.

Dennis · November 4 2009, 04:34 AM

Stone_Cold_Sisko wrote:

Dennis wrote:

I haven't read it and I like the movie just fine. So I'd say that it's of no importance whatever.

Not that I disagree with the general theme of what you're saying, but how would you know?

The panels reproduced over at Trekmovie didn't particularly intrigue me - everything about it was pretty fankwanky; a lot of name-checking. And oh wow, the Romulan shaved heads and tattoos are explained...despite the fact that there's no need for them to be explained and that it adds nothing to the movie.

And I need more reason to buy a tie-in then the fact that it's for sale.

Dayton Ward · November 4 2009, 02:54 PM

I don't think it's vital or important to furthering any understanding or appreciation for the film. That's the case of any tie-in; they're supplemental material, made to be enjoyed as extentions of the primary property (in this case, a film). Only a fraction of the people who go to see a movie or watch an episode of a TV series even know about this stuff in the first place. So, for that segment of the fans, such products are (or, at least intended to be) fun "extras."

Chrisisall · November 5 2009, 05:29 AM

Dennis wrote:

I need more reason to buy a tie-in then the fact that it's for sale.

And I need more reason to watch a movie other than it's a tie-in to a series I like.
Please Dennis, lighten up.

Mr. Laser Beam · November 5 2009, 05:35 AM

I haven't read Countdown, but I do totally accept a Borg angle. It would explain why the Narada looks the way it does (face it, a civilian Romulan mining vessel would not look like that) and why it is so powerful.

KirkSpockTOSFan · November 5 2009, 06:17 AM

Chrisisall wrote:

I just bought it, haven't read it yet, but I was wondering what you peeps who have read it thought...

Does it significantly affect your enjoyment/understanding of ST09?

I think the Countdown plays a very important part to the movie, so yes. Countdown gives you a better explamation of the events of the movie. I actually have the comic book, I bought after I saw the movie the second time around. I saw the movie total of nine times but baught the book on the day I was about to watch the movie for a third time. And I tryed to read as much I could before I saw the movie again so I could get a better understanding of the movie. Of course I understand all the events in the movie now after seeing it 9 times and reading the book. The book ties really well with the movie. I recomend anybody who wants a better understanding of the events of the movie to read the Countdown. I would recomend to read the book first then watch the movie, you would have a better understanding of whats going on.

The Wormhole · November 5 2009, 05:03 PM

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

I haven't read Countdown, but I do totally accept a Borg angle. It would explain why the Narada looks the way it does (face it, a civilian Romulan mining vessel would not look like that) and why it is so powerful.

I am also in the camp that believes Narada is too powerful for a simple mining ship (I don't care how far in the future it's from).

However, the issue could have been resolved by saying Narada was upgraded by some other means. There was no need to make it Borg technology.

Chrisisall · November 5 2009, 09:52 PM

KirkSpockTOSFan wrote:

I think the Countdown plays a very important part to the movie, so yes.

I like the NG part of it immensely. Ties up loose s*** from Nemesis rather nicely, IMO.