The Defector - great episode - Page 2

chakotay_lover · November 2 2009, 10:39 PM

"You have already betrayed your people Admiral. You made your choices sir, you're a traitor! Now if the bitter tast of that is unpalable to you I am truley sorry. "

Put that in your pipe and smoke it admiral...yes this was a great epsiode.

I loved it when picard was talking to the romulans.
"Is your crew prepared to die captain?"
"If the cause is just and honorable"....Right then I knew Kilngons were cloaked and waiting...

classic --

RobertScorpio · November 2 2009, 11:03 PM

chakotay_lover wrote:

"You have already betrayed your people Admiral. You made your choices sir, you're a traitor! Now if the bitter tast of that is unpalable to you I am truley sorry. "

Put that in your pipe and smoke it admiral...yes this was a great epsiode.

I loved it when picard was talking to the romulans.
"Is your crew prepared to die captain?"
"If the cause is just and honorable"....Right then I knew Kilngons were cloaked and waiting...

classic --

Well, i didn't know...and when those Bird of Preys decloaked (making it the first time ever that a klingon, Romulan, Federation ship were in the same scene) I got goosebumps!!!

Rob

SchwEnt · November 3 2009, 03:14 AM

Oh yeah, absolutely tremendous eps. And the ending really stuck with me, the part about writing a letter to his family. And the crew talks about how it can never be delivered...

And when "Unification" came around later and Picard actually WAS on Romulus, the first thing I thought of was Jarok's letter. Would have been nice to somehow show Picard bringing it home.

You know this eps made an impression on me!

Unicron · November 3 2009, 04:11 AM

Jonesy wrote:

There's a lot to like about the third season of the show. When I am in the mood to watch TNG, I'm (mostly) thinking about pulling a disk from the third year. I think it is particularly cool that this episode is brought up. I find "The Defector" to be one of those shows that is solid throughout.

And it ended with "Best of Both Worlds."

Admiral Shran · November 3 2009, 06:49 AM

PTRACER wrote:

I really like this one as well. Shame he killed himself at the end.

His suicide is what seals the deal on this episode and makes it all-around great in my opinion.

He was willing to betray his own people and accept never seeing his family again forever in order to prevent a war. When he realized that he did it for nothing, he simply couldn't take it. He had put absolutely all that he had into this plan.

I think it would have been a cop-out for him, at the end, to say something like "Oh well, I'll make the best of it and start a new life in the Federation." This was the perfect way to end his character arc.

This also showed that the producers had enough guts to do something rather shocking and controversial, which was visibly missing in the first few seasons.

All around great episode, suicide included.

RobertScorpio · November 3 2009, 08:11 AM

Unicron wrote:

Jonesy wrote:

There's a lot to like about the third season of the show. When I am in the mood to watch TNG, I'm (mostly) thinking about pulling a disk from the third year. I think it is particularly cool that this episode is brought up. I find "The Defector" to be one of those shows that is solid throughout.

And it ended with "Best of Both Worlds."

I have always said that season three was the best..Defector, Offspring, Who Watches the Watchers, Yesterday's Enterprise, Sarek, Sins of the Father and others...great season..not to mention Best of Both Worlds's one...

Rob

DevilEyes · November 3 2009, 04:10 PM

"The Defector" is one of the best TNG episodes, IMO. James Sloyan was great - he was always great in every role, but Alidar Jarok is a favorite of mine.

Much as I hate the new Romulan look, TNG used Romulans really well post-season 1, and gave their culture some depth in episodes like this one, "The Enemy", "Unification" (even though I'm not a fan of Sela and her plans were stupid), "Birthright, pt 2" and "Face of the Enemy".

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

It's a pity that Sela (Redemption II, I think) said that her father was a Romulan *general*. I think it would have been interesting if it had been Jarok. I don't remember him saying how old his daughter was... in any case, we were left to assume that Sela's father was an ultra patriotic Romulan who executed Tasha for daring to escape the Romulan state, but if it had been Jarok (who is obviously not such an orthodox Romulan), maybe he was mainly motivated by just protecting his daughter. Am I making any sense?

I don't like that idea at all. I loved the character of Alidar Jarok and I don't see how he could have been the same person as Sela's father, who was an asshole who blackmailed a woman into marrying him and had her executed when she tried to escape from what was practically slavery.

Besides, does it make sense at all that Sela would have remained so powerful if her father had been a defector?

RobertScorpio · November 3 2009, 10:44 PM

DevilEyes wrote:

"The Defector" is one of the best TNG episodes, IMO. James Sloyan was great - he was always great in every role, but Alidar Jarok is a favorite of mine.

Much as I hate the new Romulan look, TNG used Romulans really well post-season 1, and gave their culture some depth in episodes like this one, "The Enemy", "Unification" (even though I'm not a fan of Sela and her plans were stupid), "Birthright, pt 2" and "Face of the Enemy".

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

It's a pity that Sela (Redemption II, I think) said that her father was a Romulan *general*. I think it would have been interesting if it had been Jarok. I don't remember him saying how old his daughter was... in any case, we were left to assume that Sela's father was an ultra patriotic Romulan who executed Tasha for daring to escape the Romulan state, but if it had been Jarok (who is obviously not such an orthodox Romulan), maybe he was mainly motivated by just protecting his daughter. Am I making any sense?

I don't like that idea at all. I loved the character of Alidar Jarok and I don't see how he could have been the same person as Sela's father, who was an asshole who blackmailed a woman into marrying him and had her executed when she tried to escape from what was practically slavery.

Besides, does it make sense at all that Sela would have remained so powerful if her father had been a defector?

Maybe Jarok was future Alexander Worf's REAL father!!!

Rob

Samuel Walters · November 6 2009, 02:08 AM

This was easily one of the best TNG episodes. It's essential viewing for anyone watching the series and its personal story makes it a slight step above "The Enemy." This was a tour de force of character, theme, story and drama.

Unicron · November 6 2009, 04:57 AM

Those two eps are easily Tomalak's best, though I also enjoy his little cameo in AGT.

D Man · November 6 2009, 01:00 PM

Unicron wrote:

Those two eps are easily Tomalak's best, though I also enjoy his little cameo in AGT.

at Tomalak never becoming a common recurring character. It was still years before B5 started, so I've always wished the writers/producters would have used Andreas Katsulas (RIP) far more often than they did. Great actor for a great character.

It's also a shame they didn't do more of these tight "Romulan Intrigue" episodes, beyond the Sela stuff. They had a good streak going with the little mini-arc "The Enemy" and "The Defector" make up, but it never really went as far as I would have liked. The themes they played on in these season 3 Romulan eps were well-written and well-performed and are part of the reason the season turned the show around in such a big way; it was really the first TNG season that felt to me like it took place in a larger universe, instead of the isolated feel the earlier seasons sort of have.

Unicron · November 6 2009, 05:35 PM

I agree. The Romulans have been way underused, with the exception of a couple of gems like these TNG eps and DS9's "In The Pale Moonlight." Course, that tends to happen a lot with Trek aliens.

childofdarkness · November 8 2009, 04:45 AM

This was indeed one of the most thoughtful episodes of TNG. (OK, maybe one of the only really thoughtful episodes.) I remember being surprised by the depth of it at the time. While I understand why the character committed suicide at the end, I regret the infinite possibilities for future ramifications which went away when he did. A great episode. And I loved the interactions between the defector and the various TNG characters who had contact with him. Some interesting bits there.

Vanyel · November 11 2009, 09:50 PM

Picard quoting Henry V: Now if these men do not die well, it will be a black matter for the king who led them to it.

Great small scene.

QuasarVM · November 11 2009, 10:11 PM

One of my favorites....

Voyagerian · November 12 2009, 01:03 AM

I believe that was a good ep as well. James Sloyan has shown several times his talent in Trek, a noteable personal favorite being Maabor Jetrel from Voyager, but, how sad, to be left hanging by his people...wouldn't he have made a great former soldier, perhaps finding himself behind the scenes, working to effect a change in attitude inside the Empire. 'The Enemy' was also a nice ep, with Bokra, another eventually viewer-sympathetic character, and a chance for LeVar to take center stage once again.