What did you like about Nemesis? - Page 4

SRFX · November 7 2009, 12:22 PM

A good action scene can help further the plot, or be the final culmination of events occurring in the movie.

For example, the space battle in Nemesis had a purpose and was part of the story. The dune buggy chase just felt tacked on. Literally, it seemed like the writer just thought: "Data picks up B4's head....and THEN DUNE BUGGIES."

It's just so non-sequitur and doesn't add anything to the movie.

Note: The holodeck scene in First Contact was pretty pointless too: but it was at least a nice Dixon Hill homage for TNG fans to enjoy.

JarodRussell · November 7 2009, 12:39 PM

SRFX wrote:

The dune buggy scene is idiotic. That whole sequence could have been removed in favour of more character scenes.

I mean, I can almost accept starfleet making a wheeled vehicle (and from the sound of it, it ran on something more sophisticated than an internal combustion engine), so I am OKAY with it. BUT WHY THE HELL WOULD THE REMANS ALSO HAVE CARS?! That makes NO sense.

Hell, if the scene was deemed absolutely necessary (it's not), then give the Remans hover vehicles - at least that would've been something more exciting/dynamic/made sense.

And it would have made the Remans appear much more sophisticated than the Federation.

The whole buggy thing was really stupid.

SRFX wrote:

Note: The holodeck scene in First Contact was pretty pointless too: but it was at least a nice Dixon Hill homage for TNG fans to enjoy.

I don't think so. It showed Picard's full rage and that he really had big issues with the Borg that needed to be solved, and he got the neural something chip to get to know their next move, and well then it had both the purpose of a homage for TNG fans and an introduction for new audience that they have holodecks in the 24th century. Not pointless at all.

The dune buggy scene on the other hand... they pick up B4, and we get to know that Picard likes to drive fast cars, and that's about it.

Kirks_Flying_Wig · November 7 2009, 01:03 PM

Shazam! wrote:

Kirks_Flying_Wig wrote:

That's one of the scenes I hated in the film. Logan, Berman and Baird completely whitewashed that whole galactic milestone. The Enterprise went to Romulus! That's more important for the Federation's foreign relations than what happened in TUC (there the Enterprise just met the Chancellor's ship, it didn't actually go to Qo'noS). Such a let-down.

In fairness, how else could it have been handled? Long drawn out scenes of politicians back slapping each other whilst discussing the historical significance and political ramifications?

Isn't the the kind of thing that essentially 'killed' Star Trek and led to whizz-bang-million-mile-an-hour-ADD-explosion-fest of Trek XI?

As someone with a Trek XI avatar, you can't have your cake and eat it.

That's the stupidest argument I've ever read anywhere. You're dismissing my opinions of one film because I have an avatar from a completely different film that you don't like? What does that have to do with anything?

And FYI, despite the so-called "whizz-bang-million-mile-an-hour-ADD-explosion-fest" of XI, Karl Urban still delivered an exceptional performance that honoured both McCoy and DeForest Kelley. Thus my avatar.

SRFX · November 7 2009, 03:01 PM

JarodRussell wrote:

SRFX wrote:

Note: The holodeck scene in First Contact was pretty pointless too: but it was at least a nice Dixon Hill homage for TNG fans to enjoy.

I don't think so. It showed Picard's full rage and that he really had big issues with the Borg that needed to be solved, and he got the neural something chip to get to know their next move, and well then it had both the purpose of a homage for TNG fans and an introduction for new audience that they have holodecks in the 24th century. Not pointless at all.

True point.

Although I think his rage is only brimming at the point. The scene where he 'breaks his little ships' I think is where it finally boils over and it's made clear Picard has..had....enough of...YOU.

FalTorPan · November 7 2009, 03:37 PM

I like that no reference was made to Data being designed to serve as a flotation device.

JarodRussell · November 7 2009, 03:41 PM

FalTorPan wrote:

I like that no reference was made to Data being designed to serve as a flotation device.

He did float through space at one point, though.

Shazam! · November 7 2009, 05:12 PM

Kirks_Flying_Wig wrote:

That's the stupidest argument I've ever read anywhere. You're dismissing my opinions of one film because I have an avatar from a completely different film that you don't like? What does that have to do with anything?.

*facepalm*

Ah right. I just found it odd how someone with a Trek XI avatar was lamenting on Nemesis' missed opportunity regarding the Federation's foreign relation policy in light of the Enterprise's arrival at Romulas given that Trek XI has been lauded for it's lack of Starfleet fuddy-duddies sat round a table discussing politics. I wasn't really specifically referring to that poster. Just making an off-the-cuff remark.

DWF · November 7 2009, 05:54 PM

I too liked the music and the battle scenes and Picard's scene in the Senate chamber. I also LOVED the crash and I really liked the wedding scene too and the new warbirds.

I too wish the deleted scenes had been a part of the movie it would've made the movie a more character based one but Paramount wanted an action movie. It also really felt like the end for the TNG movies, unless it was going to make $300 million or more the box office I really don't think there was going to be another TNG movie.

Can · November 7 2009, 09:05 PM

I liked the performances of Patrick Stewart ( as usual ) and more so Brent Spiner and Tom Hardy....Plus battle scene at the end. Unfortunetely they edited story so much ( Script of John Logan was decent ) the whole movie was one bad excuse for that CGI battle at the end...

CommanderRaytas · November 7 2009, 09:48 PM

The Wormhole wrote:

Newspaper Taxi wrote:

*Riker's words at Data's funeral. I realized that I couldn't remember the song he had been whistling, either, and it made me feel horrible.

Someone in my theatre actually began whistling Pop Goes the Weasel during that scene.

I don't know why this made me laugh so hard I choked on my own saliva.

RandyS · November 8 2009, 01:23 AM

Nemesis was such a giant improvement over Insurrection that there is only one thing I DIDN'T like about it:

Data's death.

Other than that, great movie.

pureTREKKER · November 8 2009, 01:49 AM

I liked the music in the movie.
Especially the intro- Zooming in to Romulus

SRFX · November 8 2009, 04:09 AM

I think maybe most my original hatred of the movie was that going in, I was aware this was the TNG's crew's last film, so I was hoping for something that sent them off much in the same vein of Undiscovered Country. I felt the TNG crew deserved much better than the send off they got in this movie - this aspect of the film which I felt was most important, was probably the most poorly handled part of the film, and is why I have disliked the film for so long.

If I try and watch the film on it's own merits - it's actually not bad.

TUC is about as close as you can get to a perfect ST film though - so maybe my expectations were a little high (although, is it so bad of me to expect ST to try and improve on itself?).

sbk1234 · November 8 2009, 04:51 AM

I liked all the character moments. The way it appeared to me, all of the actors were really trying to make a good movie.

I liked that they didn't have a fix it button at the end. I liked that the family was finally splitting up. It created a greater sense of closure, and therefore drama than if it had all stayed the same at the end.

I liked the wedding. We've been following those two for 15 years. We deserved to see that wedding.

It was also a very sad movie for me, since it could have easily been so much better. It had the makings of a great film.

J. Allen · November 8 2009, 04:55 AM

sbk1234 wrote:

I liked all the character moments. The way it appeared to me, all of the actors were really trying to make a good movie.

I liked that they didn't have a fix it button at the end. I liked that the family was finally splitting up. It created a greater sense of closure, and therefore drama than if it had all stayed the same at the end.

I liked the wedding. We've been following those two for 15 years. We deserved to see that wedding.

It was also a very sad movie for me, since it could have easily been so much better. It had the makings of a great film.

Bingo. No matter how bad some people might say the movie is, we earned that wedding, dammit!

J.

JarodRussell · November 8 2009, 04:54 PM

J. Allen wrote:

sbk1234 wrote:

I liked all the character moments. The way it appeared to me, all of the actors were really trying to make a good movie.

I liked that they didn't have a fix it button at the end. I liked that the family was finally splitting up. It created a greater sense of closure, and therefore drama than if it had all stayed the same at the end.

I liked the wedding. We've been following those two for 15 years. We deserved to see that wedding.

It was also a very sad movie for me, since it could have easily been so much better. It had the makings of a great film.

Bingo. No matter how bad some people might say the movie is, we earned that wedding, dammit!

J.

Should have been at the end of the movie, though. After all the troubles, action and death, a positive happy ending, on Betazed, with a beautiful alien landscape in background, and the movie closes with the departure of the Enterprise and the Titan while the sun sets on Betazed, both ships jumping to warp, but into different directions.

Cyke101 · November 8 2009, 05:45 PM

One thing that sticks out to me: We FINALLY get to see Riker the Action Hero again, just as he was in TNG. In Generations, we didn't see him do much other than a brief firefight with Soran. First Contact had him (somewhat uncharacteristically, for both him and Picard) leading the Away Team assigned to the Phoenix, but that's understandable all things considered. In Insurrection, he was actually turned away from fighting in order to captain the ship.

But in Nemesis, we FINALLY get to see him lead a security detachment with phasers blaring. We FINALLY get to see him fight one of the main villains in H2H. We FINALLY get to see him in some absurdly cinematic peril, all of which we saw constantly in TNG but not in the films. He even manages to avenge his wife's rape, too, in full dramatic circle. All I have to say is, Go Riker!

J. Allen · November 8 2009, 07:40 PM

JarodRussell wrote:

Should have been at the end of the movie, though. After all the troubles, action and death, a positive happy ending, on Betazed, with a beautiful alien landscape in background, and the movie closes with the departure of the Enterprise and the Titan while the sun sets on Betazed, both ships jumping to warp, but into different directions.

I like your idea of the ending, but I'm not sure about the wedding being at the end. After Data dying, I was seriously depressed for a while and I don't think the wedding would have helped.

Cyke101 wrote:

One thing that sticks out to me: We FINALLY get to see Riker the Action Hero again, just as he was in TNG. In Generations, we didn't see him do much other than a brief firefight with Soran. First Contact had him (somewhat uncharacteristically, for both him and Picard) leading the Away Team assigned to the Phoenix, but that's understandable all things considered. In Insurrection, he was actually turned away from fighting in order to captain the ship.

But in Nemesis, we FINALLY get to see him lead a security detachment with phasers blaring. We FINALLY get to see him fight one of the main villains in H2H. We FINALLY get to see him in some absurdly cinematic peril, all of which we saw constantly in TNG but not in the films. He even manages to avenge his wife's rape, too, in full dramatic circle. All I have to say is, Go Riker!

Oh yeah. Riker was and still is one of my favorite characters on TNG. It was nice to see him kicking ass again.

J.

Shazam! · November 9 2009, 12:00 AM

Cyke101 wrote:

First Contact had him (somewhat uncharacteristically, for both him and Picard) leading the Away Team assigned to the Phoenix

I think the original draft had Picard on the surface and Riker on the ship, but Patrick Stewart intervened.

The Wormhole · November 9 2009, 01:39 AM

I assumed Riker not being in on that action in First Contact and Insurrection was a result of Frakes directing the movies. Especially with First Contact, since I'm pretty sure that was the first movie he ever directed.