James Cameron's "Avatar" (grading and discussion) - Page 55

The Borg Queen · January 11 2010, 04:08 AM

GotNoRice wrote:

I watched the movie and enjoyed it but did not really care much for the plot. I don't like how easily the main characters just turned on their entire race and then toward the end of the movie Humans were getting killed left and right with little regard like they were no different than any other generic "bad guys". I ended up sympathizing with the humans and wishing that the main character was going to get killed lol

Honestly who cares about a bunch of random primitive aliens? If the main character had just stuck to the original plan and kept providing intelligence, a lot of human lives could have been saved. It sounds like they already made a lot of effort trying to educate the aliens in schools, etc but were snubbed.

The funny part is that they are assuming that their offensive toward the humans toward the end means they will leave and won't come back. More likely the humans will be back but with bigger guns next time, possibly nukes.

I'd imagine the aliens life could have been enhanced quite a bit by earth technology if the aliens weren't closed minded religious fundamentalists.

You must have loved Starship Troopers!

Cartoonist · January 11 2010, 04:09 AM

GotNoRice wrote:

I watched the movie and enjoyed it but did not really care much for the plot. I don't like how easily the main characters just turned on their entire race and then toward the end of the movie Humans were getting killed left and right with little regard like they were no different than any other generic "bad guys". I ended up sympathizing with the humans and wishing that the main character was going to get killed lol

Honestly who cares about a bunch of random primitive aliens? If the main character had just stuck to the original plan and kept providing intelligence, a lot of human lives could have been saved. It sounds like they already made a lot of effort trying to educate the aliens in schools, etc but were snubbed.

The funny part is that they are assuming that their offensive toward the humans toward the end means they will leave and won't come back. More likely the humans will be back but with bigger guns next time, possibly nukes.

I'd imagine the aliens life could have been enhanced quite a bit by earth technology if the aliens weren't closed minded religious fundamentalists.

Interesting. Instead of heading back to Earth, Parker Selfridge decided to head to TrekBBS.

Anyway, I went in expecting great FX, a shit story and wooden dialogue, because I'd spent too much time on the Internet. But I'd forgotten that the Internet is a big, jaded hipster whose favorite hobby is complaining to whoever'll listen that almost nothing is sophisticated enough for him.

I loved the story, the dialogue, the acting, and the FX. I was thoroughly entertained, and I'll be seeing it again. It deserves every last one of its billion dollars.

Trekker4747 · January 11 2010, 04:12 AM

GotNoRice wrote:

I watched the movie and enjoyed it but did not really care much for the plot. I don't like how easily the main characters just turned on their entire race and then toward the end of the movie Humans were getting killed left and right with little regard like they were no different than any other generic "bad guys". I ended up sympathizing with the humans and wishing that the main character was going to get killed lol

You realize that the humans WERE the bad guys, right? Being that they had invaded the aliens' home planet and were destroying the aliens' sacred grounds to strip-mine their place, right?

Honestly who cares about a bunch of random primitive aliens?

People with emotions and compassion who see that the humans were wrong.

If the main character had just stuck to the original plan and kept providing intelligence, a lot of human lives could have been saved.

And an alien civilization would've been destroyed, their sacred grounds destroyed, a bioligical remarkable ecosystem destroyed, and planet the humans have no right to strip-mined.

It sounds like they already made a lot of effort trying to educate the aliens in schools, etc but were snubbed.

How much history are you aware of? I'm guessing not much. The humans had no right to barge in there to "educate" the natives.

The funny part is that they are assuming that their offensive toward the humans toward the end means they will leave and won't come back. More likely the humans will be back but with bigger guns next time, possibly nukes.

The turnover time for a mission like that is likely to be as long as a decade, it may not be worth the effort and nuking the planet may damage their ability to mine the ore they need. Also, there's going to be sequels that'll likely deal with this issue.

I'd imagine the aliens life could have been enhanced quite a bit by earth technology if the aliens weren't closed minded religious fundamentalists.

Yeah, those primitive colored people living in the brush in this back-water country don't know how to live. We'll just round them up and show them civilization! Those pesky red-people living in tents and wearing animal skins are so primitive, we'll just teach them how civilization works!

Dude, pick up a history book and buy a clue.

The Borg Queen · January 11 2010, 04:13 AM

http://failblog.org/2010/01/10/avatar-plot-fail/

It's funny 'cause it's true.

Shurik · January 11 2010, 07:42 AM

I'd imagine the aliens life could have been enhanced quite a bit by earth technology if the aliens weren't closed minded religious fundamentalists.

At some point before the attack on the Hometree Jake said in his videolog that the aliens simply didn't need any of this, they were perfectly fine as it is.
Quality of life is a very relative term. One can be happy living on a tree and another wouldn't survive without gazillion things that surround us.

USS KG5 · January 11 2010, 08:56 AM

Shurik wrote:

At some point before the attack on the Hometree Jake said in his videolog that the aliens simply didn't need any of this, they were perfectly fine as it is.
Quality of life is a very relative term. One can be happy living on a tree and another wouldn't survive without gazillion things that surround us.

This is the key point that people do not realise and why many people hate the film.

We have no right whatsoever to go around the place imposing our way of life on people who just don't want it. In the case of Avatar the point is cheap because the setting is a biological paradise that simply should not be destroyed for any reason.

It is also a parallel to the last then years though. We have gone around trying to force democracy on people, but we only have it because we decided we wanted it and earned it. In the long run it will never survive in a tribal culture.

The humans in Avatar are absolutely the villains, coming to another world and essentially starting to strip mine it. There ARE more important things than all the plastic electronic shit we own, and the film is about those.

Great Mambo Chicken · January 11 2010, 09:08 AM

The Borg Queen wrote:

http://failblog.org/2010/01/10/avatar-plot-fail/

It's funny 'cause it's true.

One of the commenters mentioned that there are only a limited number of stories that can be told. I don't believe that -- perhaps there are only a limited number of stories that succeed because they have emotional resonance with the audience. James Cameron's art lies in the telling of the story not in the premise.

Sephiroth · January 11 2010, 09:14 AM

it's a story of a situation where in reality there would be a huge grey area, but the Na'vi are "perfect" because thier world seems to be created to serve them forcing the story into a "Black and White" with of course the popular message that white people and corporations are 100% pure evil and we should all reject all forms of technology, and that humans should either reject everything or just kill themselves, there is no middle ground, technology will allways be evil, and humans will never change

Cartoonist · January 11 2010, 10:38 AM

Sephiroth wrote:

it's a story of a situation where in reality there would be a huge grey area, but the Na'vi are "perfect" because thier world seems to be created to serve them forcing the story into a "Black and White" with of course the popular message that white people and corporations are 100% pure evil and we should all reject all forms of technology, and that humans should either reject everything or just kill themselves, there is no middle ground, technology will allways be evil, and humans will never change

Defensive?

I don't agree with any of that. Ironically, your argument is taking a film that has a gray area and reducing it to black and white.

The Na'vi aren't depicted as "perfect." There's jealousy, rivalry, and in their history there was clan warfare. They would've killed Sully on sight if not for the signs. They only approximate perfection in that they're part of a sentient ecosystem.

The corporation isn't depicted as "100% pure evil," it's depicted as amoral, willing to be benevolent (as in their funding of Sigourney Weaver's mission) only as long as it doesn't severely impact its bottom line. The corporate ass hole was reluctant to allow the Tree of Souls to be bombed. He only destroyed Home Tree because it was on top of the resource the company wanted.

The message wasn't that WE should reject technology, the message was that it's morally wrong to impose our way of life on other people even if it's to preserve our own. To the extent it was about us ruining our planet with corporatocracy and technology, the message could be nothing more than "don't overdo it," unless you choose to see the film's message only in black and white terms.

Brit · January 11 2010, 11:45 AM

Great Mambo Chicken wrote:

The Borg Queen wrote:

http://failblog.org/2010/01/10/avatar-plot-fail/

It's funny 'cause it's true.

One of the commenters mentioned that there are only a limited number of stories that can be told. I don't believe that -- perhaps there are only a limited number of stories that succeed because they have emotional resonance with the audience. James Cameron's art lies in the telling of the story not in the premise.

I think what they actually meant is that there are a limited number of basic plots. Depending on who you listen to the number is from one to thirty-six.

http://www.ipl.org/div/farq/plotFARQ.html

Most basic writing texts use some form of this in their instruction.

The basic plot is the frame work on which you hang your story, the diversity comes from the individual doing the hanging.

Brit

Great Mambo Chicken · January 11 2010, 12:41 PM

Brit wrote:

The basic plot is the frame work on which you hang your story, the diversity comes from the individual doing the hanging.

That's the hardest part of course. Reductionism totally ignores the artistry of the piece.

Kegg · January 11 2010, 01:21 PM

The Borg Queen wrote:

You must have loved Starship Troopers!

Hey, I loved Starship Troopers, that film's pretty much the same as District 9 and Avatar only it lacks a empathetic human lead.

Unless you mean the Heinlein novel. In which case, er... yeah.

Lt. Trull · January 11 2010, 02:26 PM

Wouldn't it have been easier to tow one of those floating rocks... which obviously has alot of unobtanium... tow one to the processing center...

SilentP · January 11 2010, 03:32 PM

Lt. Trull wrote:

Wouldn't it have been easier to tow one of those floating rocks... which obviously has alot of unobtanium... tow one to the processing center...

Maybe the amount of power you'd need to pull it out of place would make it impractical? The forces that keep those floating islands in place must be pretty strong to stop them from drifting and colliding (though they may do that anyway, and we just don't see any), and I have difficult imagining those dinky choppers towing them.

Hyperspace05 · January 11 2010, 04:36 PM

Lt. Trull wrote:

Wouldn't it have been easier to tow one of those floating rocks... which obviously has alot of unobtanium... tow one to the processing center...

They only stay floating in the flux. Pull them outside of that area (no easy feat), they'll crash to the ground. Plus equipment doesn't work will there anyway.